Russell Croman Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 It works in the air, too, but take care: you have to turn the flap selector rather quickly through the "normal" settings (15, 30, 40), past the manual "down" detent, and get it to the manual "neutral" or "up" detents without letting the flaps deflect downward too much in the process. Usually you will be doing this at fairly high airspeed, so you don't want to overspeed the flaps. If in doubt, do it while you're still around 80kts.... then you could let the flaps go as low as 15 degrees with no worries about overspeed. I find my flaps go to -10 degrees, and it gives maybe 3kt of extra airspeed. I don't find it to be worth the trouble unless I'm on a long cruise leg. Here's one thing I noticed, though: at -6 degrees, my ailerons are still deflected downward a bit, maybe 5 degrees lower than the flaps. If I read the manual correctly, they're supposed to be lined up with the flaps in this setting. I think this is probably robbing a few knots... might have to tweak the rigging. Anyone else notice this? -Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Russ, My experience is the same as yours, +3K and the ailerons deflect downward a small amount. I haven't measured, but if mine is the same -10 degrees as yours, I don't think 2 more degrees would make much more difference. But, each plane is different. I remember one day that Roger H. and I took of together with Tony right behind us. He then proceded to pass us at a pretty good clip. Maybe it was the beans he had for lunch?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Hi Russ. My CTSW was out of rigging regarding ailerons being flush with flaps @ -6. Had to get them tweaked to be correct. Not hard to do but if rod ends need to be backed out, make sure that rod end threads are sufficiently engaged into control rods when done. I have to believe that adjusting the ailerons to be flush iimproves aerodynamics. Question regarding using manual flaps. Can this be done on the ground to see of the manual control will give us negative flap travel greater than our pre-set -6? The other question I have is are the ailerons set to be flush with the -12 flaps? I'm thinking that to see the full airspeed improvement with higher negative flaps, one must have ailerons flush with flaps at all of the higher negative settings similar to how they're set with -6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Croman Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Question regarding using manual flaps. Can this be done on the ground to see of the manual control will give us negative flap travel greater than our pre-set -6? Yes... just turn on the master and rotate the flap selector as you would in flight. The other question I have is are the ailerons set to be flush with the -12 flaps? In my plane they're not. The maintenance manual (section 4.3.1.6.3 in the CTSW manual) says they are supposed to line up at either -6º or -12º, whichever is the minimum flap setting for the plane (US or EU). -Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMcCand - N248CT Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 You don't have to change a chip; just make an adjustment of the remembered values of the sensing pot. You need a couple of switches that plug on to the control board. Beware, however , there are steel cables that limit the flap travel. Up at the top of the flap control mechanism in the baggage compartment. You may need to replace those, too. ( I don't have the parts manual handy at the moment). see procedure link from the front page of ctflier. http://ctflier.com/index.php?/files/file/4-ctsw-flap-control-unit-check-procedure/ Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I had to look at what the manual flap control provided for additional negative travel after reading the comments in this post. It appears that I get just short of another two degrees of negative flap travel by going to the manual control. I note that there is a cable that is present which appears to be there to prevent further travel of the flaps in the negative direction. Or, this cable may just be a positive safety to restrain the flaps, should the linkage fail? Just curious, if this cable were lengthened, would the flaps then be free to go to a greater negative setting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Hi Dick, No, it requires two adjustments and a re-programming of the circuit board. Like I have said before. With what I know now I wouldn't bother. You may get better gains if you could combine this was an in flight adjustable prop, but not that helpful here in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C ICEY Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 -12 the aircraft was designed for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 The safety cable in the US CT's limit it to -6 and it can't get to -12 as it is. The limiting factor here for -12 is the clean 1320 lbs. stall speed must be equal to or lower than 45 knots and the top speed of 120 knots. -12 puts you at or above 45 stall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hi Roger. LSA rules are not to be broken and no changes or modification will be done. Just always curious about equipment and how it functions on my CT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207WF Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 We revisited the aileron trim in connection with reflex flap settings recently, and learned that it makes a significant difference. Make sure to get the ailerons lined up with the flaps in the reflex setting. My ailerons were trailing slightly below the flaps. Fixing that is easy and it bought me 2-3 knots in cruise to get them lined up! WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asizemore Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Hi, I am a new owner of a CTsw. I noticed that one of my flaps seems maybe 3/8 in lower than the other when set at the zero setting. It just came out of annual inspection, so I think it is "safe". That said, if I have my local mechanic go through the flap rigging adjustment process in section 4.4 of the maintenance manual, would I expect to see any improvements in speed? Or should I be concerned from a safety point of view? Thanks in advance. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdarza Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 What is the best way to measure the -6 and -12 angles. Can this be measured in inches/mm (from a reference point) rather than the actual angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 You might be able to be measured in inches, but one of the math guys will have to chime in or someone will have to take those measurements and post them.. The degree measurement is easy. Place the flaps equal to the edge of the fuselage. That is zero. Tape a level of some kind on the flap right up by the area of the flap and fuselage and put a piece of tape on it. Now advance the flap to -6 and see what the level shows. It should be 6 degrees difference. If you have -12 then it should show 12 degrees difference. Don't get too hung up if you are 1 degree out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 If your prop came with a bubble protractor, that would work well: Edited to add: iPhones have a "Level" function with a digital readout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 iPhones have angle snapping though, and should not be used. Basically, they will "snap to 0" when it's close enough, a HUGE no-no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdarza Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Awesome - thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Ipad's will work. I have used them at the fly-ins to set props. Just use the inclinometer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Ipad's will work. I have used them at the fly-ins to set props. Just use the inclinometer. Same with iPads. That angle snapping is a no no. They work in a pinch, but it's better to get something explicitly dedicated to the job if you want precision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 About this "angle snapping"... Do you mean it will "snap" to the nearest degree? If so, even with the plastic bubble protractor, it's not easy to get exact 1° increments. Might this be a case of "close enough for gov't work"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Basically, it will snap to 0 when you aren't really that close. I've had it happen. When it unsnaps, you end up having to move a decent amount. Close enough for government work? ehhhhh. I've used a real prop protractor with bubble levels and it's accurate as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I use my inclinometer all the time on my Ipad and have not had that problem or any other issues. It works as smooth as can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 The "snap to" feature might be a settings thing that can be disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 On the iPhone, you can "zero" the inclinometer by tapping on the screen, and it then measures degrees from that datum rather than from the horizontal. Don't know how that relates to "snapping", which I've never noticed. BTW, I have not used it for anything aircraft related, just put forth the option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Even digital levels, sold retail, have some error in them. I don't think the error on iPhone or iPad is much different than those found on such retail instruments. If real precision is required, then be prepared to pay big bucks for it. Agreed. These are LSA, not Space Shuttles. We can probably tolerate small errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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