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  1. Really nothing. Just a way for people to show they either like or dislike your post. You know good boy or bad boy.
  2. How about we stay on track and not regress back to personal issues AGAIN.
  3. One down, again. Makes you wonder.
  4. Done. You are now SkyCatcherOwner. Congrats on your plane.
  5. Okay. Today starts a new day. The people have spoken. We tried to give everyone lots of leeway in their post content, but that seems to have failed with what other forum members have deemed the problem. Seems like forum members voiced their opinion openly and by PM. We are going to take a harder stand and if you think you are skirting the boundaries with a personal attack even though you didn't actually post a name it will be the same. We WILL keep our forum to LSA unless there is something important that does benefit the group. Any person with any LSA or aircraft is welcome here, but talk will be kept along the LSA lines. That means threads like the Cirrus debates are not acceptable. No more politics. Post like Andy's car are okay as we are friends and sharing some of our joys and little victories in life is fine. The but here is don't make a career of it and make all your post about cars. I just used this as an example. Since members seem to be somewhat conflicted about good and bad post the admins will just have to try and read the member mood on a thread. This may seem unfair, but we don't see any black & White answers. Members know the difference between right & wrong and what's acceptable so I see no reason to not expect that from them. We're adults not kids that may have blurred lines of acceptability. Our advice to the 3-5 posters that are constant offenders or think they are being sneaky by trying to skirt the boundaries and not be called on the carpet, those days are gone. You are part of the problem and not part of the solution. This type of behavior just adds to the fire even though it isn't literally spelled out. Leave off the non LSA incidents. Since some here have already received PM's in the past for attacks I see no reason to send them anymore. They will be gone next time. We are going to strive to make this a happier place to come where anyone can post and be safe from attacks or slanderous comments. No one should be forced off the forum due to this type of behavior and no one should be afraid to post. If it takes getting rid of the 3-5 people that fan these flames then so be it for the health and welfare of our members. It should never have gone this far, but seems like a few couldn't get a handle on their anger or engage the mental clutch before it drove them into oncoming traffic. p.s. We as admins share a belief that we hate to lose anyone, but seems members are at a breaking point and if we have to suffer the loss of a few to protect the entire community then I guess it will have to happen. It's a shame some have brought us to this juncture. WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO HAPPIER DAYS AGAIN AS THEY USED TO BE AND WE HOPE YOU ARE TOO The Admins
  6. "In my view, the 'acceptable line' is crossed as soon as one person in a debate takes a personal swipe at the other. Often these are innocuous little comments, but they are always personal in nature and they always succeed in changing the debate into a personal fight. ' Absolutely. Thank You IrishAl. Admin ask for solutions, but a few here have already crossed the line and want to play the blame game and the line got crossed yet again and right up to, but just short of posting a name. So from what others have said I should already be sending out clean up you act PM's. Eddie, "From this user's perspective, there is one primary culprit. Which makes the solution patently obvious." To me this is exactly the type of post that need to stop. This doesn't give any solution to the bigger problem, this is just point fingers. This is one of the problems and needs to stop. If you start sentences with he, you, him you may be on the wrong path. ‚ÄčEven when ask for a wide spread solution some here can not keep from finger pointing or complaining about individuals. This is what this whole thread is about. Some seem to get it while others are still on the attack. THINK ABOUT AND FIND SOLUTIONS THAT THE MAJORITY CAN LIVE WITH AND IF YOU MAKE IT HARSH THEN REMEMBER YOU MAY BE ON THE RECEIVING END.
  7. From what I have observed over the years is I think many here are great. There are some really nice people out there and they may not always agree, but they are adult enough to agree to disagree without any hard feelings or personal attacks. There is always personal choices and more than one way to skin the proverbial cat with our likes and dislikes. Remember Chevy's and Ford's. I see some here doing exactly like the admins hoped to stay away from. People singling out and skirting the fringes and making it personal. "Bear in mind we have a member here". There is more than one example here on our forum. It hasn't been just one person and it seems to me that the big majority of members are doing a good job, very friendly and many have become friends here. It boils down to 3-5 members. It used to be worse over the last 2 years or so ago and has become better, but some don't seem to be able to let go of the past. I think admins are looking to make sure there is equality all around and have tried hard to allow freedoms that are not allowed on Vans site and a few others. Sometimes equality is different in other people's mind. Crossing a line for one isn't for another and it can put an admin in a precarious position. I see some good ideas here and many we have tried to live by, but it's tough to decide sometimes who crossed the line first, how bad did they cross that line and HOW STRICT do you want admin to tow that line. I think everyone should be allowed at times a little leeway. It comes down to a couple of admins trying to make all members happy at one time and not be heavy handed. This is why we are asking for some forum input. p.s. People here have referred to Van's site a couple of times. Many here would have been kicked off Van's website long ago for a lot less than goes on here. I hope this site never evolves to the type of administration administered on Vans. The admin there is well known for being heavy handed and he post that comment on his own page. That's like having Saddam Hussein back in control. Say what we want to hear and you can live, step out of line and you're gone. There are many post other places from disgruntled members. The dictator admin there does not apply rules evenly and tosses people all the time and if Scott Riser at the top of Vans doesn't like you he makes a call and you're gone forever, guilty or not no appeals. They do talk about Van's aircraft and there is some really nice and helpful people, but it's a very sterile website and administered with prejudice. Make a bad comment about one of Van's employees and your gone. A lot of comments like the ones about FD insolvency and other post that attack an individual would have gotten people tossed off under their admin.
  8. Due to lots of complaints, some of recent, and posters that can't quite keep it together with snarky aggression the Admins had a long discussion. We are kind of at witts end. We are in the last quarter with ten seconds to go, 3rd down and behind 2 points on the ten yard line. It isn't any fun to by an admin and get as many complains as we do. We have had hundreds and all because of just 4-5 people. The open NASA post which has nothing to do with LSA was kind of a social experiment and it failed. It was attempt to be a more hands off self governing forum. It works some, but there are a few here that make people leave our forum and or don't post for fear of aggressive reprisals. We have gone over this type of aggressive behavior time and time again. We have tried to not be a dictator type governing body as you have seen on some sites. If you have been on the Vans site or dealt with their admin you'll know exactly what I mean. If the admin or Mfg person doesn't like you your gone for little to no reason and they won't tell you why. Several members have ask us to intervene on many occasions. We had only ask that politics, personal attacks or aggressive postings be aired out some place else. Admins are limited to what choices they have to make sure that a forum is a safe, non hostile and friendly place to hang out and exchange ideas, information and fun flying. The forum admins has some rules; we can lock a thread out, we can send private emails to stop unwanted behaviour, we can suspend a member and last, but not least the worst thing we ever want to do is ban someone. This is reserved for people that just refuse to stop bad behavior when requested to multiple times and from multiple complaints from other forum memebers. The forum should be a hostile free environment that all can come to and post or read without fear of posting or asking questions and they shouldn't be put off by aggressive behavior. The forum used to be hostility free and we just didn't have aggressive posters. So the only avenues open to the admins to help protect the other 98% either means control what type of post are posted, suspended members and for repeat offenders just get rid of them. Post should be limited to LSA flying and maybe an occasional stray, but that should be the exception and not the rule. As we have become friends we share something nice like Andy's car, but it shouldn't turn into negative 20 page arguement. Bottom line, stop turning a post about a sunny day into an argument. If you don't like someone and or dislike their post and just can't bring it upon yourself to be decent in a rebuttal or a discussion please just ignore it and move on. Life won't end and no life will be lost if you fail to intervene,. I'm going to leave this open for a couple of days to get some feedback. Maybe it's time to revisit some rules? Take the time to think about what you may post. I always told me people if you have a complaint, No problem, but think about it before you present it and have 1-2 ideas for a solution. We ALL MUST get a handle on this, The Admins p.s The ball's in your court let's see what you can do.
  9. "Are you suggesting that false and misleading statements be allowed to stand uncontested?" No we expect a debate. There are certainly some rights, some wrongs and some personal choices the way we do things and you can debate until your dying breath. What we don't expect is personally targeting a member with pointed comments. Like this: "Kinda like when you admitted messing with the guys on COPA. I guess we'll just keep correcting your false assertions so that no one is misled, but it sure is getting tiresome. " Which has no value about flaps or the immediate discussion.
  10. Okay everyone time to pull back. You always have the option of not responding.
  11. I can't believe we have to keep coming back to this for just 3-4 people. People won't post because of fear of being attacked. Get a handle on this. Engage the clutch between fingers and brain. Debate is fine, attacks aren't. We are an informative congenial group. Not a politicians slur campaign. Many here are friends and some soft funny joking jabs between such aren't the issue.
  12. The Admins are here at least a half dozen times per day. We see all that comes up. Sometimes the best response to something is no response and moving on is better for your blood pressure.
  13. Time to re-visit our numbers for hours flown on your CT's. The old hours were removed for the polls so we can now start fresh. It has been 5.5 years since the original post so let's hear about your hours.
  14. One more suspended today and one banned last week. Pretty soon we may be back to civil grown ups. Maybe 2 more to go. Debate all you want, but keep it civil and leave the profanity and personal attacks out. 3-4 people are chasing other forum members away and make them afraid to post. Don't turn into the very person you are complaining about. We are about aircraft, engines.,LSA, ect... Take the politics somewhere else since it seems to bring out everyone's evil twin.
  15. Big response from members wanting the forum cleaned up from problem posters. Who would have thought. Most people it looks like. Looks like members want a slander free environment to share, learn and have fun without fear of being attacked. One down permanently. 2-3 on the cusp.
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