Anticept Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Tom, did I miss something? Is there a third type of prop? The standard is ground adjustable, isn't that the same as "not adjustable in flight." There's a lot of prop types . The onces that we commonly concern ourselves with are the fixed pitch, ground adjustable, and constant speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 If you took an adjust What do you think the reliability and lifespan of the turbo 912UL conversion might be? Would the turbo kit fit under the cowl or would you need to modify it? The turbo itself might be a weak link but the low compression might offset that negative? Dunno on the cowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 There's a lot of prop types . The onces that we commonly concern ourselves with are the fixed pitch, ground adjustable, and constant speed. Actually in this case we would be talking about an in-flight adjustable prop, not constant speed and the control mounted forward of the firewall. CTs in Canada and OZ have them with the control in the cockpit. I think they have about 4 settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Actually in this case we would be talking about an in-flight adjustable prop, not constant speed and the control mounted forward of the firewall. CTs in Canada and OZ have them with the control in the cockpit. I think they have about 4 settings. Manual pitch prop... Always odd running into one of those . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I know all this, but I don't understand the difference in Tom's adjustable prop that is not adjustable in flight - is that different from a ground adjustable prop? It sounded like it was somehow. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Manual pitch prop... Always odd running into one of those . I know all this, but I don't understand the difference in Tom's adjustable prop that is not adjustable in flight - is that different from a ground adjustable prop? It sounded like it was somehow. Thanks. We have one on the Europa, an Airmaster For LSA you make it ground adjustable by putting the controller where it is not accessible in flight. Feather is a real nice feature to have in flight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Interesting. Thanks. Had no idea such a thing existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 We have one on the Europa, an Airmaster airMaster.jpgcontroller.jpg For LSA you make it ground adjustable by putting the controller where it is not accessible in flight. Feather is a real nice feature to have in flight I see an "auto" setting, is that where you'd set it, and then it would re-pitch itself auto-magically? Or am I misunderstanding how it works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/products/type/viewtype/typeid/15#124 Click on the CTLS it has an airmaster and a 914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I see an "auto" setting, is that where you'd set it, and then it would re-pitch itself auto-magically? Or am I misunderstanding how it works? I think auto is used for the preset engine speeds and manual is used for 'hold' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I think auto is used for the preset engine speeds and manual is used for 'hold' So how would you get the benefit? Does having the controller in front of the firewall but the coarse/fine switch on the panel meet the legal requirement of not having an in-flight adjustable prop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I assume any ability to change pitch in flight would violate the rule. I think its interesting that Ronnie's testimonial says first he needed the airmaster to see the benefit of the 914 in the CT and then says with it he gets 5-8 more knots. I'm assuming he is adjusting in flight but even if he isn't if you optimise to a high target altitude like 15,000' you would have ~60hp increase over NA. I would expect cruise capability above Vne (TAS). Maybe he is talking about 10,000' but even there I would expect more than 5-8knots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 The prop is adjustable, but not in flight. Put the controller out of reach or in the engine compartment so the pilot can't get to it and it is no longer an in flight adjustable prop, technically speaking, but maybe the FAA might argue that point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I wonder if one could put it inside the cockpit and placard it to be prohibited in flight. This would be analogous to the 180hp Carbon Cub that has a placard for Maximum Continuous RPM. Of course, no one ever exceeds the rpm nor would they ever adjust the prop in flight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I'm missing something...if you can't adjust it in flight, how does it help you? Just convenience for quickly adjusting the prop on the ground? Is that worth $7k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 My tongue in cheek response was that some might elect to accidentally adjust the prop in flight like I'm sure they accidentally exceed the RPM limit in the carbon cub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I'm missing something...if you can't adjust it in flight, how does it help you? Just convenience for quickly adjusting the prop on the ground? Is that worth $7k? It wouldn't be very useful at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 If it were simple to install it would be great to determine ideal pitch, but I suppose the difference in props would make it irrelevant anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 The sensenich props are pretty easy to change too with that neat little tool, and cost a hell of a lot less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Doug, I think the airplane in question has a controllable pitch propeller, but I'm not sure where they placed the controller. I think it is kind of skirting the rules a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I know the plane and I know who did the mod. (no names) and yes they are using the strict rule interpretation to skirt the issue. If something did truly happen I'm sure it would be an issue to debate with someone at the FAA since all of them don't always agree either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 There's a lot of prop types . The onces that we commonly concern ourselves with are the fixed pitch, ground adjustable, and constant speed. In fact over here in Europe I have a Variable Pitch prop on the CTLS (adjustable in flight) rather than a constant speed prop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 In fact over here in Europe I have a Variable Pitch prop on the CTLS (adjustable in flight) rather than a constant speed prop. Do you know what speeds are seen with that setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 European CTs see around 130 kts with the adjustable prop and -12 flaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Do you know what speeds are seen with that setup? What seems to be the case is that we can see lower rpm & fuel flow for a given speed - so with the price of fuel over here I tend to look to cruise between 105 & 110 kts - which I get with about 4500rpm and ~17 litres/hour I tend to fly with two up (neither of us elfin thin) so with enough fuel to go somewhere we are usually at or very near max weight which does have an appreciable effect for a given power setting. European CTs see around 130 kts with the adjustable prop and -12 flaps I think 130 kts is a tad optimistic - vne is 145! Next time I'm out I'll just see what we can get straight & level with prop in full coarse and the throttle fully open. Certainly the -12 flaps is advantageous though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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