Top Cat Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hi, I'm a new member and have flown the CTLS and am looking forward to flying a new CTLS with Skyview in a week or so at a dealership in SC. I'll ask them about getting a flight in the new Flight Design MC. Until then, has anyone flown one? Impressions? Flight Design has hinted at some improvements including useful load. I'm thinking this might be an aircraft best suited to my needs, however where can I fly one? I can't attend Sebring this year, as I know the odd two a/c may be there however, how many are there and is the MC going to be seriously introduced to he US market. I'm contemplating purchasing an LSA at some point and the MC is on my list of possibilities. However, I would like to see one, and hopefully fly one. Anyone have any input? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I have a few hours in the MC and its a nice easy flying airplane especially for training. It handles like a much larger heavier airplane then it is. The cabin is huge inside with a good size baggage area behind the seats. It is quite a bit slower then the CTLS, has less useful load and less fuel capacity as it is geared more toward training. So that means shorter cross country legs. Even though I use my CT primarily for flight training I choose the CTLS instead for its better useful load and longer legs for the renters that wanted to do cross country on the weekends. There are a limited number of MCs in the states but there is one for rent in Benson AZ just outside of Tucson Arizona. It is owned by Roy Jones at Southwestern aviation. He is a great guy and would be happy to talk to you Im sure. His number is (520) 586-3262. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted January 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Thanks so much, I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted January 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Let me guess. You want an MC because you are a Cessna or Piper former owner and think you still need to have metal somewhere in the skin of the machine. The MC is a trainer. Are you starting a flight school? If not, get a CTLSi and don't look back. No way would I ever start a flight school! :wacko: I am not a former Cessna or Piper owner either, although 30 years ago as a CFI/CFII I instructed in Cessna/Piper and Beechcraft. I did own a 1940 DH82a Tiger Moth for a time. The reason for asking is that I'm a retired airline pilot and am current in a Remos GX and 'almost' checked out in Cub Crafters Sport Cub. Both nice aircraft. I'm trying to go through the list of top LSA aircraft and am trying to either 'see one/sit in one' or better still get a familiarization flight. Trying to find the best fit for me and my wife., 60 and looking at flying for the next 15+ years for fun and the occasional cross country trip. I've flown the CTLS and really liked it. In fact I'm going back next week to fly their newest CTLS with less than 100 hours and check-out their Skyview/Garmin 696 cockpit. They're an FD dealer and I'll ask them about the MC. Just trying to put the question out there in the meantime. This Friday I'm hoping to get a flight in a Cessna Skycatcher. I've had a close up look at a legend Cub and loved it. Thinking about getting a flight in one. Can't make Sebring but am contemplating a factory visit and maybe canoodling a demo flight. The MC is of interest because it's made by FD who say it's aimed at flight schools AND for personal use. A bit simpler than CTLS, slightly heavier controls, and yes made of metal. (The Remos I fly has a little hangar rash and the owner of the school says the composite materials are harder and more expensive to repair/replace). I was simply wondering. I've read reviews, seen videos, and all responses have been good. Just can't seem to find one close to me in SC where I could simply see one or better still fly in one. BTW...you mention the Rotax fuel injected engine? How is it holding up and what benefits are you noticing over the 912 ULS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Go ahead and fly the MC, I'm sure it'll be fun.... but the LS or LSi is what you'll probably want. The MC was designed for flight schools, especially those who wanted a metal aircraft that was more docile. Personally, I'd stay away from anything that has few sales in the US, even if it comes from FD. Sorry FD, but the truth must be told. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 gbigs, Your new plane sounds....awesome! You much be just itching to get a hold of it. You make some excellent points and I must say thanks for them all. As I said...I have a date at the FD dealer next week to fly their third and newest CTLS with the 10" Dynon and Garmin 696 which is great for me. The first plane I flew in my search was the CTLS so I'm going back with some time and experience in other types to compare. I'm going to try and fly the Skycatcher anyway, and I'd like to try the MC too, just because. The Sport Cruiser looks interesting as do a few other LSAs. Maybe I'll check them out given the opportunity. Tailwheel still isn't off the board...my wife isn't much on flying so if she goes with me I'd rather have side by side, but if not the Legend will get a look at, and I quite fancy a tour of their plant. Again, just because. Being retired means you get to play with all these planes a bit...and ain't that fun?! Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Just for fun. Light Sport carbon fiber aircraft offer useful loads, best of LSA airspeeds (due to low weight and lack of drag) and structural integrity that metal aircraft cannot match. The FD CTLS is a unique aerodynamic aircraft with wonderful cabin room, 35 gallon fuel capacity and unimproved field capability (with Tundra Gear) that perhaps only one or two other LSA come close to matching. It's range of flaps which run from -6 to 35 degrees allow extremely slow and controlled flight to a true airspeed of 120+ kts. while sipping MoGas at 5 gal/hr. carbureted - slightly less for injected version. I have flown the Remos for a number of hours prior to buying my CT, and although it is a very well designed aircraft, it's ergonomics, outside visability, range, speed and luggage capacity do not equal the CTLS . The learning curve for repair of the aircraft has come up to speed where severely damaged CT's are now routinely put back into flying condition at numerous repair facilities through the U.S. If you view recent crashes of CT's, it is amazing that people have walked away from these. I suspect that once you spend a few hours in a CT, you will be hooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Dick I'm in same camp (which I guess is why I ordered a Jubilee CTLSi). Didn't like the REMOS as much and the Skycatcher feels like just a cheap toy. What sold me was the two Swiss pilots who flew a pair of CT's around the world a couple years ago. Wouldn't try that in any other LSA. It's a true cruising machine. If I just wanted stick and rudder local fun I would probaby go the Carbon Cub route. (and by the way, flaps have been limited to 30 degrees in 2013 models) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Just for fun. Light Sport carbon fiber aircraft offer useful loads, best of LSA airspeeds (due to low weight and lack of drag) and structural integrity that metal aircraft cannot match. The FD CTLS is a unique aerodynamic aircraft with wonderful cabin room, 35 gallon fuel capacity and unimproved field capability (with Tundra Gear) that perhaps only one or two other LSA come close to matching. It's range of flaps which run from -6 to 35 degrees allow extremely slow and controlled flight to a true airspeed of 120+ kts. while sipping MoGas at 5 gal/hr. carbureted - slightly less for injected version. I have flown the Remos for a number of hours prior to buying my CT, and although it is a very well designed aircraft, it's ergonomics, outside visability, range, speed and luggage capacity do not equal the CTLS . I'm going back to FD next week, to fly the brand new CTLS with Skyview and Garmin 696. I did a demo flight and quite liked it and have been going the rounds of types to find something comfortable. BTW...you mention using mogas. Pardon my lack of Rotax experience.....my CFI says only premium grade NO ethanol but I'm sure I read somewhere that ethanol grades are fine. My airport doesn't have mogas so it's always 100LL....I also read that the Rotax should be run over 5000rpm in that case to avoid lead build up and descend at 4000 rpm for same reason. Comments? Can you mix Mogas with 100LL? I mean I could drag Mogas in cans to fill it up but then I fly to an airport with 100LL so can I mix it and do I need any additives to reduce the effect of the 100LL gas? Last Rotax question...in the Remos if I throttle back too much or too quickly there is a considerable vibration which CFI says is the clutch system and the airflow driving the propellor. Just seems disconcerting to me. I too have been flying the Remos GX and agree with your comments. I dislike the fuel quantity system. One a/c has a car like gas gauge, which CFI says isn't that accurate but the other has no gauge. he says look at the clear fuel line but I find it difficult enough on the ground and almost impossible in the air. You can input the fuel quantity in the Dynon which will then indicate based on fuel used, but I don't know exactly how much I have unless I fill up. Admittedly I'm new to the a/c but to me it's an issue. FWIW..Skycatcher, CC Cub and Legend have tube indicators with a graduated scale air/ground which is much better. I don't like the view out the side of the Remos but at 5' 8" I can just about see straight out without ducking. The luggage is a joke as it's a small space in which you'd have to have a small duffel at best and have to remove the seat to get at it. Otherwise I'm really impressed with it's flying qualities but I'm starting to become an FD believer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 A number of threads on fuels if you search. Here is one. http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/1696-rotax-912i-fuels/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Just for fun, I'm now 5'9" (I've lost 1.5" over the years mostly due to my long distance running - bummer). The thing that I immediately realized when I flew a CT was that I no longer needed to duck my head to look out the side window in a CT as I did with the Remos. The Remos has foldable wings and perhaps the low window height is related to this? You will find many (many!) threads like the one Paul M has above regarding the use of ethanol Mogas. Some indicate they avoid using Mogas due to the fear that the 10% alcohol in fuel will wreak havoc with the fuel system/engine either due to the alcohol itself being reactive or due to the attraction of the alcohol to water. My home is in Michigan and 10% Mogas has been used exclusively for 3 years with absolutely no concerns. Other Rotax powered aircraft owned by friends have similar experience. I have personally seen what 100LL does to a Rotax engine and the lead buildup can get ugly. Rotax states that Mogas is the fuel they recommend and also states that the engine has been designed and developed to be 100% compatible with Mogas that contains up to 10% ethanol. Pilots in foreign countries appear to use even higher percents of alcohol in Rotax powered aircraft without issues. Flight Design also states that the CT fuel system is 100% compatible with Mogas that contains alcohol. My CT has been very happy with Mogas and at about $3.75 per gallon, I'm very happy too. Regarding the the Dynon fuel gage. My CT has at least 20 gallons on board and usually 26 gallons at each flight. The tanks are dipped before each flight. At the minimum 20 gallons and at full throttle cruise, a minimum of 3 hours of flight is available with additional one hour reserve. My trusty sight tubes never fail to tell me how much fuel remains if doubtful. At a more normal sight seeing pace or around the pattern flight, my 2.5 to 3 gal/hr. usage results in a non event for fuel remaining. If the Dynon is correctly inputed with initial fuel on board, my experinece is that it provides accurate fuel remaining during my flight. Still, I dip each tank as an additional precaution. AOPA states on average two flights per week in the U.S end abruptly due to fuel exhaustion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I also dip and use the dynon fuel used system, but don't forget the sight tubes. In the event of a leak or loss out the fill caps the dynon does not show fuel remaining, only how much went through the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted January 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Had a flight in 75 TT CTLS today at the Southeastern dealership. Nice airplane and enjoyed the 10" Skyview screens and the Garmin 696. Learned a few things from talking with the Chief CFI there. Regarding the Flight Design MC..... He actually had the first MC on his flight line for a while . N850MC. Apparently there was very little interest in it and most customers preferred the CTLS, of which they now have three. So the MC was offered for sale N850MC is the MC that now lives in AZ near Benson. I looked it up on line and it looks like a nice airplane! I could only find one other MC in the US , N796MC, the EAA giveaway airplane. The Chief CFI believes that there doesn't appear to be much future for the MC is the US. Don't know, just passing it along, and answering my own thread!! Maybe I'll try and fly if I'm down in AZ sometime! I have seen quite a few flying in Australia and I think they're more popular in Europe. Regarding the CTLS..... Their flight school only uses 100LL. Apparently they're approved and set up on maintenance program to use 100LL and with so many more hours flown than the average owner the engines are checked and inspected very frequently. We dipped the tanks and they were spot on with the sight tubes. It's much better system than on the Remos that I flew though one did have a fuel gauge, which in my view was easier than trying to figure where the level was on the non-graduated sight tube between the seats. The CTLS has much easier baggage access, and the rudder seems less sensitive than the Remos, but I do think the Remos is a really nice flying airplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 While the MC idea was good, with Cessna making their Flight Centers each buy a SkyCatcher, the market for flight school LSAs was adversely impacted. I think FD-USA realized that, and didn't even import more than a couple. tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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