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Dynon 6.0 not right according to FD


Doug G.

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Hi Doug,

 

Your right that everything should come through the aircraft Mfg, but that doesn't happen or it's late in coming. Unfortunately everything doesn't come through the LSA Mfg's. FD states to follow the Rotax manuals and comply with Rotax bulletins.

 

As an aside, not all AD's go through the manufacturer. If Garmin puts out an AD, it applies whether FD agrees or publishes or not.

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Is this legally true of LS. It is not completely clear to me. As I understand it, it is up to the aircraft manufacturer

to issue these, unless FD would say all Rotax ADs are appllicable. This is the issue - FD says not to use Dynon's update, Dynon says to do what FD says - it is FD's legal responsibility. My understanding is that in LSA it is the manufacturer who provides all notices. (Having said that, if there is safety involved, I will not wait for FD.)

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If you update without FD's blessing, doesn't that potentially put you out of airworthy? Granted it would probably never come up, but in the event of a crash and somebody checked, couldn't that be used as the basis for denial of coverage (e.g. knowingly flying an unairworthy aircraft)?

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I was told to include the Dynon 6.0 info in the POH. I think that is the issue. I don't think I have been in date since something like 2. (Which is where it was when I bought the plane.) Has anyone seen any updates from FD for the Dynon displays?

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Hence, this Service Notice...

Flight Design has issued q Service Notification SN related to the Display configuration for the SkyView that will allow approved configurations and the ability to arrange the screens more flexibly.

1. Service Notification (SN) SkyView Display Circuit Board Replacement ( These are the directions)

The SN is related to a SB that Dynon has issued and makes it applicable to the Flight Design aircraft types. To access the safety information relevant for your specific aircraft, please follow the link in the letter below. The link will guide you to the page where only those documents relevant for you are provided. Here you will find the mentioned SN.

http://flightdesign.com/files/Service Notification/SN-ASTM-CTLS-03.pdf

 

2. Dynon SkyView Configuration Files Download ( This is the Config file)

The SN requires you to update your SkyView software to version 5.1. Without this you cannot detect if you are affected by the Dynon SB. To download the SkyView configuration files relevant for your specific aircraft, please follow the link in the letter below.

Please NOTE use the 600kg ( 1320 lb) file Configuration file is HERE

We are happy to announce that this Software Update will provide you at the same step with a significantly improved screen selection and rotation capability, that had been blocked so far on units installed to Flight Design aircraft.

Attention: please only use the configuration files that we provide you for SkyView units installed to Flight Design aircraft, as they are specifically configured to match the aircraft type.

Usage of software from other download sources will alter the configuration in a way that it is not compliant with the approved aircraft Type Design.

Best regards,

Flight Design Team

Sincerely,

John Gilmore

National Sales Manager

Flight Design USA

612-759-2252

www.flightdesignusa.com

 

Tim

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Just confirmed with Dynon that since I updated my screens to 6.0 I will have to send them both back to Dynon to have them reverted to 5.1. Dynon, in a very kind way, said I should not have made any changes without FD providing it.

So basically what has happened is that I understood (from Dynon and FD) that there was an update coming that would allow the rearrangement of the screens. I thought that may have been included in the 6.0 upgrade, so I did it and found out it did not change, but it added the battery test, so that was nice.

Now I am told that the mod I was really looking for (for the last year) will not work with 6.0 and that to go back to 5.1 I need to send the screens in. I hope this will not affect many more of you.

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Today I called FD & spoke w Dave about the recent Service Bulletin from FD. It : 1) warned of a possible circuit board defect, 2) suggested an upgrade to Skyview v5.1 and 3) mentioned a software update that allows increased flexibility in configuring the screen layout.

I told Dave that Dynon had notified me in March of the circuit board concern & I had back then confirmed that neither of my Skyviews were affected/defective.

In addition, I had been getting notifications from Dynon of recommended upgrades to their Skyview systems that provided enhancements & fixes. In the absence of any word from FD & because I was getting notifications on my Skyview screen of "maps out of date" - I was regularly updating my system directly from Dynon.

I asked Dave what I should do now that I have Skyview v6 and FD wants me to run v5.1. He said only by retuning the units to Dynon could I revert to v5.1 and the new software that allows screen flexibility in v5.1 will not currently work with v6.

He said to sit tight & wait for FD & Dynon to come out with a software solution to this common situation among CTLS owners.

I told Dave I was unhappy that FD had previously been silent. No guidance or recommendations. Our maps were going out of date & the only communications came from Dynon who also offered system upgrades.

If FD wants complete control then they should have a website offering all map & system updates. And in this day of free dissemination of emails & info there's no excuse for not communicating with their customers.

 

 

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From John Gillmore at FD in email to me today:

 

Gregg,

Thanks for the heads up on the posting. I know that there were several FD owners that wanted the flexibility to configure the screens and that being the incentive for the update FD had to make sure that the certification basis of the CTLS was not affected. The non certified Dynon systems can change a lot more frequently in an Experimental or LSA while they are not even available in a certified plane. Any "fix" while seemingly straightforward has other unintended consequences. There was never any FD direction to change to 6.0 and it is too bad that they have to be returned to Dynon to revert. I think that Dave has a good handle on what is happening. There was no recommendation communicated because we did not have one until testing had been completed.

 

I do the web site for the US and I know that FD is updating the FD GmbH site as well.

 

Sincerely,

John Gilmore

 

National Sales Manager

 

Flight Design USA

 

612-759-2252

 

www.flightdesignusa.com

 

 

 

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Fortunately I had not updated to 6.0 (I'd like to think it was because I knew what I was doing but it was probably just that I'd not gotten around to it). I had updated to 5.1 however and fortunately in the Service Note they point to a download page where FD does offer a file that only includes the specific Flight Design files that you can install on the PFD/MFD (they also offer the file with the 5.1 upgrade if you've not done it).

 

I did the update yesterday and all looked good - I could do the screen swapping, etc. Then I noticed the TACH TIME was missing from the EMS, and I was locked out of the ability to add it, and position it near the tach (where it had been previously). Since TACH TIME is used to track maintenance, I felt it needed to be there - every other aircraft at the flight school has the renter record the tach time after each flight. I sent the below email to FD/John yesterday. John responded that he had forwarded to Tom/Dave. I'll post the outcome. If there is no fix I'll have to go back to the previous settings (no screen swap) as I need to have the TACH TIME easily available.

John / Flight Design Support,

I'd indicated that the 5.1 Firmware update had gone as expected, however after the update the first pilot that flew noticed that the TACH TIME was missing from the EMS display. This had been there before and is used, of course, for tracking routine maintenance. I tried to find it, to put it back on the EMS display, but was unable to. It appears that some of the functions are now locked out that were previously available.

Please provide a firmware update ASAP that will allow the TACH TIME to show on the EMS page (near the TACH, in a place easily visible to renter pilots). I'd like this by end of business Tuesday July 9th if possible as it is critical that this time is tracked accurately.

It would also be nice if the previous capabilities of the Skyview, that were shipped with the airplane, were restored. It is unexpected and disconcerting to lose capabilities that previously existed on an airworthy airplane!

Thanks for your quick response.

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What a mess! I wonder if Dynon can do the FD upgrade and get it right. (I doubt that they can without FDs direction, and who knows how long that would take.) I have a separate Hobbs meter that I use instead of the Tach time, so that is not an issue for me. It will be a couple of weeks before I can send my units in.

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An email from JG. I don't think there's anything new for this thread here but thought I'd post anyway. It may help clarify for someone..

 

 

 

We have recently found that there is an functional and regulatory issue in having your firmware updated thru Dynon instead of a Flight Design approved version. You may have been aware that Flight Design worked with Dynon to provide screen options such as partial screen layouts and swapping the information from one screen to the other. Flight Design had just released this custom firmware upgrade in Version 5.1 with the screen configuration choices that had been requested by CTLS SkyView equipped planes.

 

 

 

If you have recently responded to a Dynon offer to upgrade to their Version 6.0 there will be some conflict with respect to some functions that

 

you may be locked out of and also that your POH will no longer correctly reflect what is possible in your plane.

If you haven't upgraded to Version 6.0, don’t upgrade to 6.0 instead we suggest that you follow this link to download the approved Version 5.1. Two links exist, one for versions older than 5.1 get "5.1 with update" if your version is already 5.1 use "5.1 without update".

 

Please READ the directions regarding the version of 5.1 you might need for YOUR airplane.

 

 

If you have downloaded and installed Version 6.0 there are two solutions at this point, first you can return your units to Dynon and they will reprogram them. The other option at this time would be to download the appropriate parts of the Dynon manual from their site and include these instructions of operation into your AOI manual for regulatory compliance.

 

 

 

We are working with Dynon to solve these issues to fix the un-approved software download.

 

Sincerely,

John Gilmore

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I recieved the same e-mail from John. He also commented in a further exchange that summer is the time to be flying, so I will probably wait until late fall to send my units in. Maybe, given the last sentance above, a solution will be found that won't require my sending my units in.

 

I have yet to activate my Dynon GPS, and as I have stated before, I won't spend the money until I can get the GPS display closer to my normal field of vision, and the operating buttons and knobs within easy reach. So I guess that will wait until the fall, or a fix, also.

 

I hope this event brings about some clarity in the regulations and the communications between FD and Dynon as well as their communications to owners and LSRM-As.

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I hope this event brings about some clarity in the regulations and the communications between FD and Dynon as well as their communications to owners and LSRM-As.

It feels like the LSA industry is maturing - I don't say that in either a positive or negative sense - I mean the builders and fliers are out and the lawyers are in. Too be expected and sometimes to be applauded.

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Wow, I've been going down this nightmare road with the software for days now! Back and forth with FD and Dynon, and John... and in all these days no one has mentioned or told me about the SN!!! I just found it tonight as I type here on this forum, as I wanted to check if others were having a similar issue.I just bought the plane on July 3....Talk about a communications failure..Clearly nobody knows whats going on...OR playing dumb.

 

I was on the phone with Dave at FD to do the upgrade to 5.1 with update right from the get go... to avoid any problems. Well I have had problems, and now it looks like mine may be two of the defective ones? Dave had no idea that after the update why I could not access the setup menu using the 7+ 8 buttons..Nor did Dynon! Quote: "That's not possible, I have never seen that before".... Paid $180 today to Affordable Avionics to change defectively wired pins on the ADhars 200...Looks like I may have other issues... Not sure if my circuit board needs replacing on these units, until I go verify the serial numbers and Mac and whatever else was mentioned in the S/N I found here.

 

Why wasn't this S/N mentioned to me? I was just told to go and download the right software from an email sent by John Gilmore which started the whole thing.. The plane worked great before the update and was running 3.2

 

Pretty disappointing with this situation now.

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Thank you Dan! As it turns out both my skyviews are affected by SN-ASTM-CTLS-03 and need to be returned to Dynon for repair.

 

While I'm sure that's frustrating, at least you can have Dynon set up the software to what ever version you want. Hope it doesn't take too long.

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Yes, that's true and they can add my missing auto pilot servos. I spoke with Dave at FD yesterday and he informed me they are bagging 5.1 and going to 6.1 in a couple of months. Should I wait???

The plane is back flying now without auto pilot, but she's flying and it's my understanding that the SN doesn't ground the plane.

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