mocfly Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 While installing a new K&N Filter today I noticed that there are 3 holes on either side of the air filter which allow UNFILTERED AIR into the intake system. This seems wrong on the most basic level. Does anyone know what the filtration level of the K&N is versus the others? Cause the K&N looks like the micron level is pretty high. Is there a reason for this? Is it wrong? What is the corrective action if it is not how FD intended. Expect a LOA in the next few weeks for the installation of a Water Sep for the CTSW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 I'd imagine it's to let the engine continue running if the filter got plugged or waterlogged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Chris, That does sound totally wrong. Air will follow the path of least resistance - there should be NO holes that allow unfiltered air to bypass the filter. As far as micron size, I think a K & N passes larger particles than a pleated paper filter. I could be proven wrong with data, but I'd prefer it be from somewhere other than the K & N site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted August 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Just wondering if anyone had specific knowledge. Off to the Flight Design Booth in the am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 I spoke with Tom and I am waiting for an answer. Anyone know if the have the air box holes exposed like i do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Are you able to post a pic? There should be no holes in the airbox. The only protrusions should be the carb vent tube that enter one side and exits the other. The other is the rod that opens the carb ice trap door and goes all the way through, but nothing should be open to the outside air and there should not be any extra holes. If there is someone punctured the airbox during maint. and past that I would have no clue why anyone would put holes in it. The gascolator will do its job and should help separate any water out of 100LL, but if you use 91 Oct. with ethanol you should never see any water as it was adsorbed in the fuel and will burn through the system with the fuel. If your getting enough water in your fuel system to be an issue then you need to find the cause and not just treat the symptom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C ICEY Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 In my CT2k, there were 3 holes on each side of the filter box, where lock wire was used to wrap around and 'secure' the filter into the box. Certainly didn't make any sense to have any holes in this location. A small dab of silicon sealed each off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 That was the right thing to do. Many of us don't even use the wire ties to hold the filter down any more and haven't for many years now. Works just fine without the plastic wire ties and then a filter removal and cleaning is a piece of cake. It seals just fine. You never have to drop the airbox again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 The holes were to secure the air filter. Sealed them up with silicone and with the new K&N they are covered up. Another problem noticed was how the fiberglass hole that the carb heat actuator rod goes thru is really oblong/egg shaped and I am sure allowing unfiltered air into the engine. Anyone see this? What is the best way to fix it? I would think that a sleeve should be bonded into the glass and then have the actuator arm go thru this? It surprises me everytime I see items like this on our aircraft. Shoddy engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 K&N Air filters have extremely high filtering capability. They use an oil that actually works better as the filter gets dirtier. I recommend them on your car too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I agree with all that unfiltered air should not be a common event, but most conventional engines allow unfiltered air in when the carb ice flap is opened so while it is not a common occurrence it does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Are you talking about the stainless wire that is used to tie the mag plug, oil drain plug, and oil filter? The A&P that just did an oil change on my CTLSi and tied all three down. Unless it's unique to the injected engine, I wasn't aware there was a way to safety wire the oil filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I suspect he is wrong, his track record is not particularly good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Why even try correcting him anymore. It's quite obvious to all in this group that typical posts are both inaccurate and sometimes belligerent. Continuing a dialogue with him is only going to create a waste of bandwidth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 If someone felt insecure about the oil filter you can put a worm drive screw clamp around the filter and attach safety wire to the clamp and a screw or bracket on the engine The oil pressure plug screw and magnetic plug do not come safety wired from Rotax or FD. That is up to the owner. Rotax oil filters do not unscrew themselves when put on properly. It takes a wrench to get them off and if you can unscrew it one handed then it isn't on properly. I snug mine up with a wrench too. Putting safety wire on a Rotax filter in total believe it may come off just means you don't really know how to install it or you wouldn't do it. I have guys come in once in a great while with safety wire on the filter. I usually toss it and ask them to unscrew my filter by hand. After they try they agree it won't come off by itself, but if it makes someone feel good then by all means do it. Why do you think Rotax after 33 years Mfging the 912 doesn't have any safety wire setup for its filters. They don't come off when installed properly and the info is every where on the web on the proper installation technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Roger, I've thought of safetying my oil filter, a la "belt and suspenders", but have never bothered. On the one hand, the filters on cars and motorcycles are rarely safetied, and like on the ROTAX, they do not tend to loosen on their own if tightened properly. On the other hand, why do you suppose virtually every other aircraft engine does call for safety wire on their oil filters? I do not see any obvious difference in contact area or thread pitch or any other reason they would tend to loosen on their own. Oh, and I was surprised to find that the oil pressure and magnetic plugs do not come safetied as delivered - I'm pretty sure that every ROTAX instruction I've seen for the magnetic plug, at least, has involved safety-wiring as a final step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Hi Eddie, There are numerous items on a new out of the box Rotax that is up to the owner to initiate. Unfortunately some aircraft Mfg's don't do it either. Safety wiring oil filters is an old school hold over and it makes some people feel safer whether needed or not. Just like using anti seize on spark plugs verses thermal paste. Some habits are hard to break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think the Tempest Rotax oil filter has lockwire tabs. If they installed one of those there goes his Rotax warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm planning to replace my air filter with a K&N...it sounds like I can just snip the ties, pull them through and fill in the holes with silicone, and lay the filter in the box without any ties or other securing, is that right? Does anybody have a part number or link for the correct K&N filter? Did anybody notice any better power, throttle response, or other changes with the K&N? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 The Tempest oil filter for a Rotax is only $.50 cents cheaper (CPS and Spruce pricing). Why on earth would anyone use that verses the Rotax and especially since the Tempest doesn't have the needed features of the Rotax filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 The K&N 33-2092. It's about the same price as a Mann, but is more or less a lifetime filter and it breaths better. You have the right idea for the install. The filter seals and sits there just fine. Not a single customer of mine uses the wire ties any more and hasn't for 6+ years. You'll never have to remove other parts to clean that filter again. One last note: Make sure all the wire tie parts come out of the airbox and do not drop anything in it unless you remove it. Failing to remove any parts will result in having them sucked into the cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think the Tempest Rotax oil filter has lockwire tabs. If they installed one of those there goes his Rotax warranty. That seems harsh. Save 50cents and get a safety wire attachment but lose your warranty? Got popcorn? This should get interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 The Tempest oil filter for a Rotax is only $.50 cents cheaper (CPS and Spruce pricing). Why on earth would anyone use that verses the Rotax and especially since the Tempest doesn't have the needed features of the Rotax filter. Roger, what are the 'needed features of the Rotax filter' that are lacking in the Tempest filter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Me thinks CTLSi's shop has some 'splaining to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 That seems harsh. Save 50cents and get a safety wire attachment but lose your warranty? Got popcorn? This should get interesting. Just saying Rotax would consider this an un-approved part, and they don't like un-approved parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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