Tom Baker Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Are you talking about the stainless wire that is used to tie the mag plug, oil drain plug, and oil filter? The A&P that just did an oil change on my CTLSi and tied all three down. They are talking about the plastic ties that hold the airfilter in place on a CTSW. Your airplane has a different airfilter system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 The oil filter has wiring support on the end of the filer. Here is a picture. You need to ask the A&P if he is ready to cover warranty issues for your engine, because he just install an oilfilter that is not approved by Rotax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 http://www.rotax-owner.com/pdf/SL-912-014-R3.pdf Looks like issues could be by-pass valve spring return valve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 CTLSi, Shame on the mechanics, brand new engine with an un-approved oil filter. You should get that filter changed. It is un-approved by Rotax and lacks the Rotax features internally and may cost you a warranty claim. Tell the mechanic they shouldn't be using the Tempest on a Rotax engine regardless of who sells it (Spruce or CPS) and the cost difference is only $.50 cents now. The Rotax filter used to be like all the other filters years ago. The newer filter has a softer anti drain back membrane so when the engine sits it does't leak oil past the membrane, other membranes are stiffer. The Rotax oil filter is the only one I know of that has an internal check valve. This is not the same as the by-pass and is the reason we can not pre-fill our filters any more. The by pass pressure on other filters including the Tempest is 13-15 psi and the Rotax by pass pressure is 18-22 psi. Years ago I wrote an article and did research and back then other filters were the same except the old Rotax filter by-pass was 14-16 psi and would have said the Pure One 10214 was a better filter, but with the mods Rotax added it is now an all together different filter. As they say on TV: "Don't be fooled by cheap imitations". :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Roger - actually the CPS/Spruce difference is $0.57 whereas the CPS/CPS difference is $0.52. Every penny counts Roger. Anyway, unless Lone Mountain knows something, I am surprised they would put a Tempest on a customers new plane. I wonder what their price to the customer is for the tempest. In the case of Spruce/Cps their price is Tempest $22.85 and Rotax $23.42. CPS wants another nickel for the Tempest. Plus shipping & handling of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Hi John, It's really a poor decision for a dealer to put on an un-approved filter. There is no cost to them because they pass the cost on so why not use the appropriate parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Roger - I agree. I was just wondering if the dealer knows something the rest of us don't. Also am curious what they get for putting on the wrong filter vs. a Rotax. Maybe they get a better break on Tempest but don't pass it on to the customer. As for the cost difference, I was just attempting some humor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Maybe the owner specified what filter he wanted used... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Andy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 We don't know that the oil change was done by Lone Mountain, do we? He just said A&P, and they could be at his home airport. My guess is that it is a throw back to being a GA mechanic, and other aircraft oil filters having a place for lockwire. They could have thought they were doing him a favor by securing the filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 why just don't buy the Rotax filter from Canada we sell it for $16.00 retail never understood the $22 that you pay although , I rather pay your price for the oïl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Andy, You may be right. Got my bag of popcorn. Will he call out the mechanic? Will he call out the shop? Will he say thank you guys, I wasn't aware of that? Odds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Hi Tom, You are right. I modified my post, but I was fairly sure, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Chris you and Andy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 It is an interesting question. A questionable warranty has a value and gbigs takes a hard line in his business dealings. If it were me I would be concerned because the warranty is in its infancy and the future is gamble. If this 65% new design (whatever that really means) holds up perfectly due to the 'German' master's masterful design then there is little to worry about other than an anomaly on this motor. I've learned the hard way in the light sport world that there is not always coverage. I wish this had not have happened the remedy could be expensive and the damage to the motor non-existent. Someone removed a Rotax filter and replaced it with a Tempest. I will be interesting to understand the thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 It truly is the wrong filter and not an authorized Rotax part. If FD approved this and I know they didn't then they would take the liability for the warranty, which we know they don't want. Right now looks like Lone Mnt. may be on the hook. Of course that's only if the warranty came into question as long as it's in effect. It should be the owner to make contact since he's the one at risk. I would be just an outsider and middleman. There is an SB out about unauthorized parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Heres a Service Letter on the subject http://www.rotax-owner.com/pdf/SL-912-014-R3.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 What makes you all think he is not baiting you into thinking something other than what is or has actually occurred? Most of the responses are not always true and correct. What makes a person think that this isn't the case with the current issue of whether or not his mechanic used an approved part? Would a company like Lone Mountain risk it's reputation and it's ability to work on aircraft by installing non approved parts? I doubt it. Seems more like a statement made by a person who didn't actually know what they were looking at. Did we see a picture of the install showing the safety wired oil filter? Seems that regardless of any help offered, a belligerent response is always returned. Popcorn done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 ... Did we see a picture of the install showing the safety wired oil filter? ... Post #23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 My bad. I guess they are on the hook for not installing approved parts. Thanks for that CT. Wonder what the guys from FD have to say? Or the local FSDO? Now that he has been advised that non approved parts have been used in a system like the motor lubrication circuit, does it make the aircraft un-airworthy? Legally, could he face FAA sanctions for knowingly flying an un-airworthy aircraft? If there is a problem with the FAA he can get ussyorktown to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Right now it looks like Spruce is out of Rotax filters, but lists the Tempest as a Rotax filter. Someone that didn't do enough research might think it was OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I would have to say that according to Service Letter SL-912-014-R3 the aircraft is not airworthy and that un airworthy condition one could say was caused by Lone Mountain. However the pilot in command of the aircraft is required to perform the preflight and determine the airworthiness of the aircraft prior to flight. In this case, if the aircraft was flown from the maintenance facility to another airport. Then the pic is responsible for flying an un airworthy aircraft without a ferry permit. I would be curious what our pilot would tell the FAA? 3.1.2) Example of a non-genuine ROTAX® oil filter (see fig. 4, 5 and 6) Based on reports from the field a non-genuine ROTAX® oil filter was tested for its quality and suitability according to the ROTAX®-instructions, where following was found: - Theoilfilterinfringesoncopyright/withoutpermissionROTAX®aROTAXENGINEType912/914label (1) and has some serious technical deficiencies: - no by-pass valve (2) = in case of contamination this can lead to a completely blocked oil system - filter insert (3): shorter than the genuine = less filter surface and reduced dirt pick-up - no genuine ROTAX® part number - sharp-edged inner spring (4) = this can cause wear and cracks in the filter housing - no return-valve (5) = after switching-off the engine self-draining of the oil filter will not be avoided. When the engine is started again it will require a longer time (less film lubrication) until the necessary operating pressure is reached Such an oil filter is not airworthy and should not be installed or be further used according to ROTAX®- instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 One other aspect...CTLSi in several threads berated those doing any of their own maintenance, including oil changes, saying that should all be left to professionals. I wonder if a third party installing unapproved and potentially damaging parts on his composite fuel-injected wonder might change his thinking on that at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 If it does he will never admit it. I wonder if he will allow them to work on his plane going forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Probably not relevant, but would the Magnuson-Moss act apply? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act It applies to "consumer products" and warranties. In part, "Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions, and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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