Gov shutdown closing general aviation

[Doug G.]

CT, I suspect you know that all caps on the internet is considered shouting.

Eddie, what does that mean, "The national parks belong to the people..."

I get that people are upset in many cases with good reason. (I don't suppose the park people were having a particularly good day either.)

We spent two weeks in the Black Hills this summer, and I can understand why people would not be allowed to stop on the narrow and winding two lane road where there are only one or two places to take pictures. There were a couple of thousand people at the monument when we visited. I am not sure what the point is. Is there some portion of government you would prefer to take guns from top keep the parks open?

I evidently live in some sort of nirvana. None of the things you are talking about seem to be going on in MN or ND. I know you cannot get into the two national parks and I am certain there are people whose plans are being upset by that, some employees that are out of work and some sort businesses that are losing money, but that is an economic reality - every dollar not spent ( from whatever source takes 3 to 4 dollars out of local economies. There seem to be some in congress that don't get that. To simply say that shrinking the government will reduce the debt is vast oversimplification. If you took get"in dollars out of the economy tomorrow and applied it to the debt the economy would collapse, companies would go out of business or go where people had the money to buy their products, which would deepen the hit. Then we would be forced to default, another hit.

The last time this sort of thing happened it less to the Democrats splitting, Lincoln getting elected and the country in civil war. It was a long time before the Dems recovered.

So, if the idea is to vote them all out - does that include all of your own legislators?

I appreciate the government subsidizing my flying especially since I don't golf.

Sorry for the ramble, doing this on my phone, on a small window makes it difficult.

Practiced ground maneuvers, cleaned the bugs off the plane - time to go home.

[josjonkers]

Zzzzzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzz, snort, burp, zzzzzzzz.

Please let me snooze.

[techman]

The boneheads are worried if they inflict no pain we all will figure out was is really essential and what is not..hmmm not a lot essential. They use more people to stop people at moments than those who typically work there. Sad...

[Doug G.]

Evidently many people think economics is either simple or boring. I had to explain over and over why I thought it was interesting enough to get a degree in. I think economics is about people, the problem is it is controlled by politicians.

[Doug G.]

Thinking a bit more about the mis-information. Mt. Rushmore is not in a National Park, it is a national monument. If someone is moving people from the outlooks it would be the SD Highway Patrol.

[FastEddieB]

.

Eddie, what does that mean, "The national parks belong to the people..."

 

 

Kinda seems self-evident.

 

They're not private property, they're public property.

 

You and I and every American comprise "We, the people". IOW, the public.

 

It's not some privilege the government should be in a position to dole out - we have a right to be on public land. Restrictions should only be imposed if a public safety concern can be reasonably articulated. That may be the case in some situations. But if I want to accept the risk of a trip up to Brasstown Bald, what's the big deal?

 

 

 

[Doug G.]

If that is the case why bother with any park rangers and workers in the first place. Weren't the parks set up to preserve them, not to allow them to be trashed. I am assuming that you are a responsible citizen, but unfortunately many aren't.

It seems reasonable to either pay the people who work there, or close the parks to protect them, doesn't it?

[Ed Cesnalis]

...

It seems reasonable to either pay the people who work there, or close the parks to protect them, doesn't it?

 

We won't even close our border to protect our country. Yosemite alone is 1,200 square miles, how are you going to close that? Hire an army?

 

If it so reasonable why was it not needed in the 17 previous shutdowns?

 

We don't need the 'benevolent' government to protect our parks from the 'evil' people so much as viewing them. The park service is now tasked with making life as unpleasant as they can for those that dare approach, this is madness and you keep making excuses.

[FastEddieB]

If that is the case why bother with any park rangers and workers in the first place. Weren't the parks set up to preserve them, not to allow them to be trashed. I am assuming that you are a responsible citizen, but unfortunately many aren't.

It seems reasonable to either pay the people who work there, or close the parks to protect them, doesn't it?

 

I understand your point, and have stipulated there may be cases where for public safety or preservation of national assets may be justified on a case-by-case basis.

 

But, for example, closing Lake Mead?

 

http://www.ktnv.com/news/local/226616001.html

 

There are lakes all over this country that manage quite well without the government supervising.

 

Put up a sign at all public entrances: "WARNING! USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! Some search and rescue operations have been temporarily suspended. Some marinas may be closed so watch your fuel carefully and plan accordingly. Please boat responsibly."

 

Anecdote to follow.

[FlyingMonkey]

Many of these areas are essentially unsupervised wilderness areas anyway, so there is no "service" to no longer be provided by the shutdown. Given that, there is no reason whatsoever to prevent anyone from continuing to use these areas. Well, no reason except inflicting unnecessary hardship on the citizenry.

 

But then, I'm a radical. I believe people should be free to do anything they like as long as it doesn't harm another's person or property.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

 

Christianity is not in favor and should be punished wherever there is the opportunity! /sarcasm

 

Ashley McGuire, a senior fellow with The Catholic Association, said in a statement, "The idea that a priest would be arrested for or blocked from celebrating Mass for members of the military is something out of a totalitarian horror show. The government should do everything in its power to make sure that our servicemen and women are not punished with religious liberty violations during the government shutdown. This is yet another example of the Obama administration playing politics with our religious liberty."

 

http://cnsnews.com/n...h.pBbNyQDK.dpuf

[Ed Cesnalis]

Pentagon Withholding Death Benefits for Fallen Soldiers' Families

 

by DAN RIEHL 8 Oct 2013

The Pentagon has confirmed it will not pay death benefits to the families of troops killed in combat during the so-called government shutdown.

 

 

Privately, Defense Department officials say they wish they could pay the families and they admit it's a disgrace that deserves national attention.

Boehner claimed a bill passed by Congress and signed by the president last week to pay America's troops should have given the Pentagon the latitude "to pay all kinds of bills, including this."

 

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/08/Pentagon-Confirms-Obama-s-Obstinence-Withholding-Death-Benefits-for-Fallen-Soldiers-Families

[FastEddieB]

That made the NBC Nightly News last night.

 

Promises were made that the issue would be resolved today.

 

Let's hope so!

[Ed Cesnalis]

First he said we must punish our [political] enemies and reward our friends and no-one was outraged.

 

Then we learned that the IRS was punishing the Tea Party but no-one was outraged. Punishing the enemy is now OK in America.

 

Now they are punishing everyone, friends and enemies because everyone knows blame for a shutdown will be placed on Republicans. Punishing the people is now OK in America, where is the outrage? How far will this govt go when inflicting pain intentionally?

[Ed Cesnalis]

Runner gets fined $100 for using public trail closed due to shutdown

 

 

John Bell was looking forward to a quiet run in Valley Forge National Historical Park. Instead, he got a $100 fine for being in a park that's closed due to the government shutdown. He returned from a trail to the parking lot, where two park rangers wrote him the citation. Bell, a marathoner from Chadds Ford, Pa., told Runner's World that he was aware of the shutdown and saw that the park's main gate was closed, but "didn't put two and two together" because the trailhead he used wasn't blocked. He plans to fight the citation and says it's not about avoiding the fine, but about reinstating access to public land.

"Closing main gates, visitor’s centers and concession stands, I understand that," Bell said, "but shuttering the public from trails, trees and birds is excessive." A protest run is reportedly a possibility, and Bell says if it happens, he'll be there. Runner's World reported that requests for a comment from the National Park Service were not answered because the press office is currently closed.

 

http://now.msn.com/john-bell-pennsylvania-man-fined-for-running-in-national-park-during-shutdown?ocid=vt_fbmsnnow

[Ed Cesnalis]

Alaska slams feds for keeping hunters off land

 

 

Alaska lawmakers accused the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service of violating federal law by shutting down hunting on its lands during the government shutdown, saying a 1980 law guarantees state residents must have access to the land.

“It seems that agencies are working harder to keep people off federal lands than they have ever worked before to get them to visit federal lands,” said Sen. Lisa Murkowski, Alaska Republican, who questioned the Obama administration’s decisions during the week-old shutdown.

 

The National Park Service has faced scorching criticism for closing not just parks, but even parking lots and drives that don’t require continual monitoring or upkeep. Other federal land management agencies also are facing criticism.

 

 

Read more: http://www.washingto.../#ixzz2hEUtbGRF

[Admin2]

We may have strayed a little too far.

 

I know everyone is frustrated and many affected by the shutdown and venting feels good at times, I get that, but maybe we should get back to either how it affects us in our LSA flying or abandon the general politico bashing and get back to our normal flying conversations.

[FlyingMonkey]

Nobody addressed whether they think the gov't will use TFRs to keep pilots away from the parks too.

[Doug G.]

Admin, if you look at the first post, the post and the topic don't go together and the post has nothing to do with LSA, GA or anything aviation related. I did not feel it was a proper topic, but the posts seemed to indicate otherwise. Now it has come to shouting and personal accusation - "you keep making excuses."

The conversation has been interesting and it is good to have a sense of what is going on in another part of the country, some of which, if the facts are as presented, are certainly wrong. However, the conversation is degenerating and therefore I will bow out and stick to the aviation side of things.

 

 

[Doug G.]

One last thing I had not read CTLSi's last comment. One question - When was the last time a president appropriated government money, or passed a budget?

I'm done.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Doug, since you asked:

 

Obama's 2013 budget was voted down 99-0, 2012 was voted down 97-0. He doesn't submit a serious budget and fails to get a single vote even from a Democrat.

 

http://www.politifact.com/tennessee/statements/2012/sep/28/bob-corker/bob-corker-says-senate-has-not-passed-budget-more-/

 

What about Corker’s claim that not a single appropriations bill has been brought to the Senate floor this year?

 

The U.S. House passed seven of the 12 annual appropriations bills this year and sent them to the Senate for consideration, according to the status report by Republicans on the Senate Budget Committee. The Senate Appropriations Committee also approved 11 of the 12 spending bills and sent them to the full Senate for consideration.

 

An independent search by PolitiFact via the Library of Congress’ Thomas bill-tracking web site confirmed the figures cited in the GOP report.

 

But none of the bills approved by the House or the Senate Appropriations Committee were ever brought to the Senate floor for a vote. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who decides which bills will be considered, told reporters on July 10, 2012, that no spending bills were likely to be approved this year because of an ongoing dispute with House Republicans over how much the federal government should spend.

 

True to his word, Reid so far has not brought any of the annual spending bills to the floor this year, necessitating the short-term budget measure to keep the government running for another six months.

[FastEddieB]

If my vote means anything, I say let the thread run its course.

 

Those who cease to find constructive dialog here will simply tune out.

 

I just don't see the harm.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Park service backs off and allows private Inn to reopen today. Owner is happy and thinks he and his employees are lucky.

[sandpiper]

Denali Nat. Park, somewhere in the mid 1990's I won the lottery so to speak and got my name drawn to be able to drive in to Wonder lake on the last week end the park is open. Wall to wall rangers the whole trip to make sure us mere mortals didn't do a bad thing.

 

Talked to one of them and she asked me what I thought National Parks were for. I, mistakenly, said they were for the populace to be able to see unspoiled wilderness, animals, etc. Man, was I wrong. She stated that it was for the wildlife, etc and that man was not really welcome. I also found out that every tree (not many trees in that park), rock and animal had a name!

 

So, during this shut down many of them are seeing their dream of keeping people out come true.

 

Anyway, I should have been a ranger. they are given tools like outdoor equipment, snowmobiles, and in some cases airplanes to properly patrol their domain. After all, somebody has to make sure us mere mortals are properly supervised and that rivers and lakes have ample stocks of fish before any permits are issued.

[FlyingMonkey]