How about six seats, under 6000lb, day or night on a driver's license?

[Adam]

Perhaps we are all missing one potential... If it were easy to manufacture 4 to 6 place planes (Part 23 revamp to look more like ASTM), and for pilots to fly them (no medical required) perhaps instead of a handful of choices in 4 place planes we'd have 100 manufacturers of larger, planes?

 

Lets be honest, anyone flying as a Sport Pilot can easily spend a few more hours over a few weeks with a CFI checking a few training boxes and upgrade to Private Pilot. There is no magic to that upgrade path, essential skill sets are the same. The folks who let medicals expire and fly with a Private Pilot under Sport Pilot rules could also then go back to flying larger airplanes if they wanted to. LSA's would exist as long as there is a market for them, if not the manufacturers would move up and build bigger or move out.

[Anticept]

Perhaps we are all missing one potential... If it were easy to manufacture 4 to 6 place planes (Part 23 revamp to look more like ASTM), and for pilots to fly them (no medical required) perhaps instead of a handful of choices in 4 place planes we'd have 100 manufacturers of larger, planes?

 

Lets be honest, anyone flying as a Sport Pilot can easily spend a few more hours over a few weeks with a CFI checking a few training boxes and upgrade to Private Pilot. There is no magic to that upgrade path, essential skill sets are the same. The folks who let medicals expire and fly with a Private Pilot under Sport Pilot rules could also then go back to flying larger airplanes if they wanted to. LSA's would exist as long as there is a market for them, if not the manufacturers would move up and build bigger or move out.

 

Not everyone wants larger planes. The bigger the plane, the exponentially higher the costs of maintenance and operation. Any manufacturers that stick strictly to LSA will have some problems, but remember that flight design builds planes for use all around the world. They already operate in a lot of places where the standards for All GA aircraft are the same, and they do just fine.

[Doug G.]

I wonder how much of a loss of market share they can take in their biggest market they can handle however.

[Anticept]

I wonder how much of a loss of market share they can take in their biggest market they can handle however.

 

And gain a new share in the 4 seat market?

 

Im not saying they will be unaffected, but i do not believe they will be dramatically affected.

[Anticept]

The reason old planes are cheap is because of the low demand. You will see a price shift just like cubs did, you can count on that.

[Doug G.]

I think CTLSi is right. Besides that, it is much easier to find a plane to rent with a private license. I just wonder why they didn't try to simply remove the third class medical completely and leave all the qualifiers of of it.

[FlyingMonkey]

Just keep in mind, the DL exemption is not a free pass for an insulin-dependent diabetic, someone prone to seizures, or a terminal cancer patient to go fly. The pilot must still certify before each flight (getting behind the controls is tacit certification) that he does not believe or have reason to believe he has a medical condition that will affect the safety of flight.

 

If you have a medical condition, talk it over with your doctor, and he thinks it might not be safe for you to fly, you should self-ground. If you have a condition that you know could incapacitate you unexpectedly, you should self-ground. If the FAA finds out later that you flew when you knew better, they will do the grounding for you.

 

We are all guilty of talking about the DL exemption as if it's a blank check, but it really isn't. It just seems that way compared to the onerous Class 3 medical.

[WmInce]

Just keep in mind, the DL exemption is not a free pass for an insulin-dependent diabetic, someone prone to seizures, or a terminal cancer patient to go fly. The pilot must still certify before each flight (getting behind the controls is tacit certification) that he does not believe or have reason to believe he has a medical condition that will affect the safety of flight.

 

If you have a medical condition, talk it over with your doctor, and he thinks it might not be safe for you to fly, you should self-ground. If you have a condition that you know could incapacitate you unexpectedly, you should self-ground. If the FAA finds out later that you flew when you knew better, they will do the grounding for you.

 

We are all guilty of talking about the DL exemption as if it's a blank check, but it really isn't. It just seems that way compared to the onerous Class 3 medical.

 

Spot on, Andy.

[Howardnmn]

Is there a way to poll ctflier members to see how many went with LSA a/c because of no medical? Bet the LSA manufacturers would like to see those numbers

 

Btw a new cessna 172 is over $400k. If they built them to ASTM we might see some serious price revisions. The c4 might actually sell for 250 but doubt that will be part of any new legislation. Personally I like $3 spark plugs

[Anticept]

I have my medical and still fly CTs. I've flown 13 different planes, and absolutely adore my CTLS. It is a valid point though, if you want to go somewhere with someone and bring cargo, a CTLS won't cut it.

 

But for local and regional flying, I refuse to leave home without her!

[techman]

I am curious - VFR and VFR at night...why no IFR? Still need IFR ticket but can get with class 3 medical so what is the difference?

[FastEddieB]

I am curious - VFR and VFR at night...why no IFR? Still need IFR ticket but can get with class 3 medical so what is the difference?

 

Who knows?

 

I'm a Commercial pilot and a CFI. Lots of hours and experience. Yet, just because I have an expired medical, I can't fly at night, over 10,000' or without visual reference to the surface.

 

What's the logic in that?

[FastEddieB]

Bottom line? Without that medical, you are a sport pilot. True?

 

Nope.

 

Still a Commercial Pilot, Single and Multi-Engine Land, Instrument.

 

Says so on my certificate, issued with no expiration.

 

But operating for the time being under Sport Pilot limitations, by choice.

 

The day I let my medical expire I did not suddenly lose the skill set I had.

 

But it is what it is and I'm blessed that almost exactly at the time of life when renewing a medical might become problematical for me, there suddenly appeared an option to stay in the air - one which had never been there before.

 

Good timing!

 

My flying career may be on the "backside", as it were, but I'll continue to enjoy every additional hour. And accept the legal restrictions, even if I cannot fathom the logic. When the day comes for me to hang up flying as a hobby, I'll still be grateful for the many hours spent doing something very few people in the history of the planet have been lucky enough to do!

[FlyingMonkey]

Eddie could still act as a Sport CFI.

[FastEddieB]

I could, but I did let my CFI expire - they're only good for 2 years.

 

Getting it back would be pretty straightforward, but I've had little need for it. If and when there seems to be enough demand for Sport Pilot instruction, I would renew it.

 

And there's really nothing stopping me from getting my medical back - I just have to buckle down and do it.

[citizen500]

I could, but I did let my CFI expire - they're only good for 2 years.

 

Getting it back would be pretty straightforward, but I've had little need for it. If and when there seems to be enough demand for Sport Pilot instruction, I would renew it.

 

And there's really nothing stopping me from getting my medical back - I just have to buckle down and do it.

Question

Does that mean you are limited to a light sport aircraft as well? I thought that was one of the limitations of my sport pilot certificate.

[FastEddieB]

 

Question

Does that mean you are limited to a light sport aircraft as well?

 

Yep!

 

Though with the fun I'm having with my Sky Arrow, at this point in my life it's not a huge sacrifice.

[WmInce]

My flying career may be on the "backside", as it were, but I'll continue to enjoy every additional hour. And accept the legal restrictions, even if I cannot fathom the logic. When the day comes for me to hang up flying as a hobby, I'll still be grateful for the many hours spent doing something very few people in the history of the planed have been lucky enough to do!

 

Well said Eddie.

[sandpiper]

A CFI with an expired medical can still give instruction for hire provided they are not PIC or a required crew member. So, if a private pilot was going for commercial, and is qualified as PIC, a CFI with no medical could provide instruction for pay. That CFI, however, could not give instruction to someone "under the hood" while acting as safety pilot because said safety pilot is a required crew member.

 

 

[Anticept]

As I said in another thread, there is no medical requirement for a CFI. There is only a medical requirement for the commercial rating. If you are acting as a Sport Pilot PIC, then you can use your full CFI, and CFII abilities.

[sandpiper]

One thing still confuses me. Can a CFI with no medical put their student under the hood while instructing in a LSA? Logic tells me this is allowable but the only regulation I have seen forbids the CFI from doing this since he/she is a required crew member. I'm sure this applies only to "traditional" aircraft but can't find that written anywhere.

[sandpiper]

Some here will disagree, but the FAA told me they can because the CFI is PIC (in LSA). The FAR you are referring to was written before Sport Pilot existed. The FAR's have not been totally harmonized with the Sport Pilot rule. The reason you need a medical to put someone under a hood is to be a legal PIC. In an LSA, you are legal PIC with a driver's license as your medical.

 

I got this ruling from:

 

Jay Tevis

FAA Regulatory Support Divsion

Light Sport Aviation Branch

 

Makes sense to me. Thank you.

[sandpiper]

Nope, that is not correct.

 

I agree with MovingOn. A sub part H trumps a sub part K.

[207WF]

Gee, I could go ELSA, put a constant speed prop on my CTSW, fly it at, maybe 125 knots. That would be fun! WF

[FastEddieB]

Gee, I could go ELSA, put a constant speed prop on my CTSW, fly it at, maybe 125 knots. That would be fun! WF

 

If only.

 

ELSA's may not be modified out of SLSA limitations/definition*.

 

Unless you can point to something that says otherwise.

 

If you can, there would likely be a constant speed, or at least flight adjustable, prop in my Sky Arrow's future.

 

 

*1,320 pounds maximum takeoff weight for aircraft not intended for operation on water; or

1,430 pounds maximum takeoff weight for aircraft intended for operation on water.

A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (V H) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level.

A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including the pilot.

A single, reciprocating engine.

A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft other than a powered glider.

A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin.

Maximum airspeed of 120 knots.

Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for operation on water or a glider.

Fixed or repositionable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft intended for operation on water.

A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing devices (V S1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity.