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Saw this on Barnstormers this morning


Al Downs

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Wings are longer, no parachute, 100 HP, yellow in color, smaller instrument panel, lighter landing gear, 2 blade prop, smaller rudder. Priced to sell quick and too low in my book. He said he was going to ask more so I was surprised at this price. He is getting out due to health. All maint. is up to date.

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As Roger says, my CT2k has about 1 foot longer wings, no wingtips, 100hp driving 3 blade Warpdrive propeller, very lightly loaded because of keeping within 268 kgs unladen regulations. It takes off like a rocket from incredibly small fields and I can load it to the gills for long excursions knowing there's still plenty of lift available. Other than getting very proficient at slipping it down when empty in order to prevent floating, it can live with any CTsw I've flown with.

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Thanks Mac, sounds fun. The CTSW is already a handful in gusty winds, I can imagine the CT2K is the same but a bit more so... I bet it does climb like a scalded dog though! What is the useful load on yours? I imagine with no parachute and longer wings, you must be near 650lb/295kg, assuming the same max gross as the SW (1320lb/600kg here in the USA)...

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Andy, we are limited to 450 kgs max take off but with 2 up, fuel to go direct to France from Ireland and a couple of bags in the back it can go well over that 450 kg . . . . ahem. . . . . not that I would do that ! but it's comforting to know that the airframe is capable of a lot more than we are using over here.

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Andy, we are limited to 450 kgs max take off but with 2 up, fuel to go direct to France from Ireland and a couple of bags in the back it can go well over that 450 kg . . . . ahem. . . . . not that I would do that ! but it's comforting to know that the airframe is capable of a lot more than we are using over here.

 

Understood. ;) Some folks over here say the CTSW/LS will handle 1400-1500lb with no problem, I'm sure nobody would do that here either, since we're limited to 1320lb...

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If weight's the holy grail, then everyone would be sailplaning or hang gliding instead of clunking around in fixed wing motor driven clap-traps. Its relative to the design, power, and purpose.

 

Your stance is ironic, to say the least. You constantly brag about how great carbon fiber is over metal. Why is your CT made of that instead of metal, do you suppose? Oh yeah...WEIGHT!

 

All other things being equal, weight is THE defining performance characteristic of aircraft. Who says lightweight means sailplanes? In the 1960s, the F4 Phantom II mounted two J79 engines. The F-104 Starfighter mounted the same engine, but only one of them, yet outperformed the Phantom in EVERY regard (except sustained turn rate, because of the F-104's stubby wings). Why? Because it had a max takeoff weight of ONE THIRD of the Phantom's (20,000lb vs 60,000lb).

 

There is no doubt whatsoever that we could design an airplane that weighs less than your CTLSi, handles better, gets better fuel economy, and does better in rough air. EVERY airplane is a compromise, and your CTLSi has certain compromises that define its performance. Weight is the number one consideration that defines aircraft performance and the compromises needed to meet design goals. Do you really think you'd be in worse shape if your airplane was exactly the same, but weighed 100lb less? Would that turn it into a sailplane?

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If weight's the holy grail, then everyone would be sailplaning or hang gliding instead of clunking around in fixed wing motor driven clap-traps. Its relative to the design, power, and purpose.

 

Comparing 2K to SW to LS to LSi and to other LSA is problematic for obvious reasons. Each craft has it's particular characteristics, advantages and disadvantages. The newest designs and newest equipment are by definition better than the old stuff. Sure they all fly, but the new stuff takes advantages of the limitations and mistakes of the past.

 

I took a little ride in a Cessna 180 two days ago. It was built in 1957. Sure it's an airplane, but I won't even go into the difference in noise, climb, fuel burn, steam guages, and other elements. The owner took a ride in my CTLSi, a 50 year aviator, CFII, experience in everything from every Cessna made to air tankers. He was blown away with just about everything in the CTLSi. And how it climbs like a hawk compared to his rumbling antique bumblebee.

 

It's like comparing a Model A Ford (which the guy also had in his hangar) to a fully equipped Lexus RX350. It's not even the same conversation.

 

It's all about mission. No CT can do what a C-180 is meant to do and vice versa. Perhaps a CT can maybe land on the same gravel bars and haywire strips I used to take my 180 into. The difference is the 180 came out of the same landing area with half a moose and lived to do it again whereas what would be left of the CT would have to be brought out with a helicopter in pieces.

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