Ed Cesnalis Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I use rudder trim about 10 times / flight but I only trim flaperons if adding a passenger ( or subtracting ). Even though I don't use the flaperon trim as much it is far more important to me. I don't like holding up a heavy wing more than I don't like holding rudder pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Znurtdog Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Thanks for the educational info, although I would guess almost all of us knew it. Yes. Most of us.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Yes. Most of us..Point to ponder... There are pilots of all skill and experience levels conversing here. But... On sites like this the ratio of lurkers to active participants is often much higher than one might assume. I think we can further assume that a lot of folks with little or no flying experience or knowledge drop in here to maybe get their first taste of what Sport Flying is all about. And its my belief that there's a lot of good info that can be gleaned by a newcomer to start him or her on the right path. Or at least I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 And its my belief that there's a lot of good info that can be gleaned by a newcomer to start him or her on the right path. Or at least I hope so. This mindset is the curse of online forums. Each person is convinced they are "righter" than the next and because they feel the need to protect the lurker they continue to repeat their opinion even if it doesn't matter, if it has been equally or well stated elsewhere, if it's right for them but not others, if it fits one set of circumstances but not all and so on and so forth. And, it keeps people answering and correcting people who should be on their twit filter. This forum can be a valuable place to exchange ideas, but none of us have the responsibility to save the lurker from the incorrect post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 This mindset is the curse of online forums. Wow! I had no idea!!! I apologize if my mindset has cursed the forum. But seriously, I had no idea my last post could be seen by anyone as contentious. Live and learn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Point to ponder... There are pilots of all skill and experience levels conversing here. But... On sites like this the ratio of lurkers to active participants is often much higher than one might assume. I think we can further assume that a lot of folks with little or no flying experience or knowledge drop in here to maybe get their first taste of what Sport Flying is all about. And its my belief that there's a lot of good info that can be gleaned by a newcomer to start him or her on the right path. Or at least I hope so. You're absolutely right, Eddie. I have learned lots of really good stuff from this forum, and I really appreciate everyone's contribution. While Jim is correct in saying that there can be too much correction and counter correction, it's a small thing to suffer for all the good information and advice that's being offered. And of course, it's those very things - corrections, mini-conflicts and disagreements - that often bring colour and entertainment to what could easily become a dull technical exchange that few would want to read. The forum has a great balance, and I'd be surprised if there weren't lots more 'lurkers' like me who thought the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorJohn Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 When someone post incorrect information, they should be corrected. On the other hand, it's tiresome when people continue to argue over opinions. There is only one person I see on this forum that constantly posts factually incorrect information and NEVER will admit being wrong. It's the same person who seems to think there is something magical about a Flight Design CTLSi simply because he owns one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Wow! I had no idea!!! I apologize if my mindset has cursed the forum. But seriously, I had no idea my last post could be seen by anyone as contentious. Live and learn! I'm not picking anyone out, your message was simply an example of a fault that most of us, I included, are prone to. Let me expand - the proclivity to post ad infinitum is made worse because we tend to react to the immediately preceding message, to messages taken in isolation rather than in context (so we start arguing over nit-picking details are are not apropos the main theme of the discussion - this let's us be "right" about a minor point which is a digression while obfuscating the primary discussion in which we are guilty of the sins mentioned in my previous post)and because we all tend to post without having researched our topic carefully or provided references for our position. Again, I'm as guilty as anyone for this. I maintain my point that we try to reform the unreformable to the detriment of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 I read somewhere that 80% of pilots are INTJ or ENTJ personalities on the Meyers-Briggs profiling system. That personality type is prone to logical thought and precision, so it's probably natural that on a pilot forum you'd find a lot of nit-picking and "well, that's not *exactly* right..." kind of comments. Annoying sometimes, but I think that's just how it is with aviators. BTW, I am an INTJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 I would be happy if you all could respond without reposting. I have attempted to use the twit filter, but it doesn't help. He has, to a large extent turned me into a lurker. Let me also say that this was a better forum before he showed up. Then it was excellent information without all the reaction to the inaccurate info and the constant reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorJohn Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/ Bloody hell - I've got most of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 There is a rhetorical device known as "the fool". In it the "fool" puts forth a superficially silly argument which can then be countered with a combination of logic and reason. It can end up being a springboard for more in depth understanding of the subject at hand. Sometimes I think something similar happens here. Normally the conversation would go something like this: "My autopilot is so advanced it helps keep the ball in the center." "Sorry, it really can't do that unless it's connected to the rudder which I'm pretty sure yours is not." "Oh, I see what you mean. Thanks - I must be seeing something else." The End. Instead, we often get continued arguing for a position which is, quite frankly, indefensible. Yet I think there is value to the continued discussion. It often leads to tangents and analogies and explanations that may serve to help others learn more about the subject at hand. For instance a new or potential pilot may learn about yaw dampers and Frise type ailerons and the limitations of a two-axis autopilot, to name just a few examples. Anyway, though it can be frustrating, I still think there is some merit to these discussions. But that's just me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorJohn Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 People are all here voluntarily. There is no fee. You get what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 As Eddie says, some of the most in-depth discussions on the forum have arisen from 'stick and rudder moment' comments. Yes, I agree it's not a great policy to make indefensible statements and then to try and defend them blindly. But it's just as unacceptable to then bash that person and to solicit other to do the same just because you don't like it. Two wrongs never make a right, and it is a public forum after all. There's a positive to be taken from almost everything in life and it makes everything a lot better when we look for it and simply ignore the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 When someone post incorrect information, they should be corrected. On the other hand, it's tiresome when people continue to argue over opinions. There is only one person I see on this forum that constantly posts factually incorrect information and NEVER will admit being wrong. Indeed, it seems to me that there are times when the fundamental goals of the forum are distorted by repeated efforts to correct apparent misconceptions or erroneous information (emphasis on "repeated"). Doing so to protect lurkers seems like a thin rationale, after a while. Eventually, it just becomes tedious and unproductive. I fully expect one or more to comment, "well you don't have to read any of it if you don't want to." To which I would reply, fair enough, but do you really want to drive forum participation in that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Indeed, it seems to me that there are times when the fundamental goals of the forum are distorted by repeated efforts to correct apparent misconceptions or erroneous information (emphasis on "repeated"). Doing so to protect lurkers seems like a thin rationale, after a while. I did not mean that any of this was meant to "protect" anyone. Educate was more my drift. I can easily say my piece and move on if discussing technique or opinion, for example. Often ending wth a "Different strokes!" or "Whatever works!" or equivalent. Things that are factually wrong are tougher for me to leave be. To leave falsities hanging can give the impression there's still a debate on the topic at hand. Maybe a headwind really does call for nose down trim. That sort of thing. "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Over on the Pilots Of America, someone just started a thread asking if a plane flies faster into a headwind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Of course it does, due to the additional nose down trim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorJohn Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Evidently, a few people confuse airplanes with sailboats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Evidently, a few people confuse airplanes with sailboats. Airplanes are much more akin to submarines. Both travel in a fluid medium. An airplane is just a submarine that has extreme negative buoyancy and thus requires huge bow planes (wings) and forward momentum to maintain its depth (altitude). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Over on the Pilots Of America, someone just started a thread asking if a plane flies faster into a headwind. Mine does. Usually. A higher TAS because I sometimes carry more power. :huh: And due to nose down trim!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Mine does. Usually. A higher TAS because I sometimes carry more power. :huh: And due to nose down trim!! I already fly at WOT so the nose down trim is all I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Things that are factually wrong are tougher for me to leave be. To leave falsities hanging can give the impression there's still a debate on the topic at hand. Maybe a headwind really does call for nose down trim. That sort of thing. "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan None of us have the responsibility to protect lurkers from incorrect statements. If the administration of this site had that objective, they could meet in in a number of ways, including banning persistent purveyors of incorrect information and establishing FAQs for reference. This is the heart of the statement I made earlier in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 In casual conversation , you can say /write your opinion, this is assumed to be an opinion. However if your state something as fact, it behooves the audience to ask the poster for proof, the statement is fact. In that case the poster needs to provide literature to prove the statement. Any discussion on anybody's part, without literature to back it up is, In my "OPINION" and that of most Scientists at best "ANECDOTAL",(charitable statement), and not necessarily scientific. It is an individuals responsibility not to be gullible. Don't think that is the responsibility of the "administration". My $ 0.02. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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