Hangar self-fueling practices

[FastEddieB]

Just curious...

 

...does everyone use a filtering funnel? My Sky Arrow came with a "Mr. Funnel" that allegedly filters out debris and water:

 

 

Googled image.

 

My impression was that it was a good idea when using MOGAS.

[Doug G.]

I have two of them, but since I cannot use them when I am filling the plane and I read that you should not use them when filling at a gas station, I have stopped using them and use a funnel with a fine screen.

[Dan Kent]

Just curious...

...does everyone use a filtering funnel? My Sky Arrow came with a "Mr. Funnel" that allegedly filters out debris and water:

Googled image.

My impression was that it was a good idea when using MOGAS.

I use this to fill my 30 gallon Bykas tank with 5 gal Walmart plastic fuel cans.

[FlyingMonkey]

Until acquiring my Tuff Jugs, just about every single time.

After using the Tuff Jugs (without the rubber adapter), zero, nada.

 

 

My experience exactly.  Even being very careful with "normal" fuel cans there was often a drop or three on the wings.  With the Tuff Jugs, it just does not happen.  I always check the seals right after I fill them by tipping them up.  They never leak if you cinch them down tight, but better to find out at the gas station than over the wing.

[FlyingMonkey]

I have not been using a filter funnel.  I drain check the gas before each flight, so far trash in the gas has not been an issue.  Most folks don't filter 100LL, why would mogas need more filtering?  There is some pretty nasty pumping gear and tanks at airports, and isn't that why we have a fuel filter and gascolator?

[paul m]

I have not been using a filter funnel.  I drain check the gas before each flight, so far trash in the gas has not been an issue.  Most folks don't filter 100LL, why would mogas need more filtering?  There is some pretty nasty pumping gear and tanks at airports, and isn't that why we have a fuel filter and gascolator?

Agree Andy.  Have stopped filtering.   Don't think it's worth the mess and don't see why the gas tanks at local Shell station are any worse than the ones at the airport.  I have not one, but two, mr. funnel's (two different sizes) if anyone interested in buying.  And like Bill I usually throw in 10 gallons and never top off, so the rubber spacers aren't necessary either... so have 2 of those as well. 

[FlyingMonkey]

On a related note...how full is "full" when you guys fuel?  I usually leave about an inch below the filler as air, so that the gas doesn't just get scattered to the wind whenever I turn or fly a little uncoordinated.  Do you guys leave some space, or fill right up to the gas fitting?

 

I just always assume when I "fill my tanks" I'm only really putting in 30-32 gallons instead of the full 34, but I'm not sure where "full" is.  The factory dip gauge is not very accurate either.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Leaving an inch or two of airspace won't keep you from sloshing out your vent if you are not coordinated.  When venting that fuel your airspace moves inboard.

[FlyingMonkey]

Leaving an inch or two of airspace won't keep you from sloshing out your vent if you are not coordinated.  When venting that fuel your airspace moves inboard.

 

So, fill it to the tippy-top?

[Ed Cesnalis]

So, fill it to the tippy-top?

 

I do, unless I over fill by 5 gallons.  My nozzle has no shut off and my pump is 13gal/min so when I blow it its ugly.  I usually add fuel to the right wing only and do so for 30 or 40 seconds.

[Ed Cesnalis]

I already have my fuel station grounded to the hangar and bonded to my CT.  Putting in a funnel breaks the connection and I would need another wire.

[Alaskatravels]

If you are allowed to store gas in portable gas cans, then you are allowed to have a fuel trailer.  Putting gas in the plane standing on a ladder over the wing, especially for the aging pilots on this forum, is problematic.    If you are afraid to tow the trailer on an icy road, then put a transfer tank in the back of a pickup truck.

 

Be honest, how often have you spilled fuel on the wing pouring it out of a 5-gallon gas can? 

 

By the way, I rarely have much gas left in either the trailer or the truck transfer tank because the best time to fill the transfer tanks is about when you need it, and the plane holds 30 gallons itself.

 

 

Fire regulation here in HNL allow one metal, self closing 5 gal gas can in you hanger at one time.  It must be stored inside a metal containment system even if empty.  We can not get a fuel trailer passed the guard.  We are required a pass sticker on the truck to drive into airport with proof of current insurance.  I must have annual background check with ramp pass and present each visit.   I must pass and maintain a "inside the fence" driver licence, renewed each year, and present each time.   I must present a current driver's license.  If I have a guest/wife I must present a pilot license.  I must wait for guard to open gate, granting entry.  I  sometimes bring soda or fruit to guard, who are very nice men.  In reality I bring old style red tuff jugs, you know the one with a vent.  I generally bring 4 each, fill them to 4 gallons and fuel aircraft from short ladder outside hanger, on ramp.  This has allowed me never to spill, at least so far. I await word from you 5.2 gallon guys when seven decades and more have passed for you.

 

Have a very nice day

 

Farmer

[FlyingMonkey]

Fire regulation here in HNL allow one metal, self closing 5 gal gas can in you hanger at one time.  It must be stored inside a metal containment system even if empty.  We can not get a fuel trailer passed the guard.  We are required a pass sticker on the truck to drive into airport with proof of current insurance.  I must have annual background check with ramp pass and present each visit.   I must pass and maintain a "inside the fence" driver licence, renewed each year, and present each time.   I must present a current driver's license.  If I have a guest/wife I must present a pilot license.  I must wait for guard to open gate, granting entry.  I  sometimes bring soda or fruit to guard, who are very nice men.  In reality I bring old style red tuff jugs, you know the one with a vent.  I generally bring 4 each, fill them to 4 gallons and fuel aircraft from short ladder outside hanger, on ramp.  This has allowed me never to spill, at least so far. I await word from you 5.2 gallon guys when seven decades and more have passed for you.

 

Have a very nice day

 

Farmer

 

Jeez, you need a different airport.  Sounds like you are flying out of a supermax prison.

[Alaskatravels]

AT HNL you are mixing it up with F22, C5, C17, 747, 757, 717, 767, a 330, DC 10, MD 11. etc, etc.  ATC may says you are cleared to land number three behind ???, caution wake turbulance. hold short of intersecting runway ?.

 

I am always nervous about any reference to me and prision in same sentence.

 

Got to go to work now  7AM here

 

Farmer

[Doug G.]

Farmer, not sure how much will change in the next five years. I guess if I felt the need I would use smaller containers. Now that summer is nearly over I guess I'll renew my gym membership. :-)

[FlyingMonkey]

AT HNL you are mixing it up with F22, C5, C17, 747, 757, 717, 767, a 330, DC 10, MD 11. etc, etc.  ATC may says you are cleared to land number three behind ???, caution wake turbulance. hold short of intersecting runway ?.

 

I am always nervous about any reference to me and prision in same sentence.

 

Got to go to work now  7AM here

 

Farmer

 

Sure, I'm sure there are good reasons for the security...I personally just would not enjoy flying into or out of that environment.  I had a Beech Jet behind me on final yesterday, and that was stressful enough for me.  

[DocRon]

I installed a 75 gallon tank/tool box combo in the back of my pick-up along with a 13gpm pump which is run off the 12 volt truck's battery.  I ground the aircraft's exhaust pipe to the hangar door.  Buying the 91 octane from Costco (around central Arizona) gets me fuel for about $3.65 per gallon.  My $700 investment paid for itself in about six months.

 

Also, I now have a pick-up that can go 2000 miles on one "tank".

[Dan Kent]

I have not been using a filter funnel.  I drain check the gas before each flight, so far trash in the gas has not been an issue.  Most folks don't filter 100LL, why would mogas need more filtering?  There is some pretty nasty pumping gear and tanks at airports, and isn't that why we have a fuel filter and gascolator?

I'm not so concerned with the filtering @ the gas pump, but I did have a small piece of debris on the gas can fall into the funnel ( I think it was a piece of a leaf), so I use the Mr. Funnel, as the only downside is the gas in the reservoir.

[FastEddieB]

I use the Mr. Funnel funnel.

 

My filler port is kind of small, so a funnel of some type is required anyway.

 

I was under the impression that mogas is not filtered to the same extent as avgas. But even if that's an Old Wive's Tale (likely), each step from pump to can and from can to plane introduces the possibility of wayward dirt or contamination inserting itself somewhere, as Dan alluded to.

 

And the Mr. Funnel is no hardship to use, so why not?

[Ed Cesnalis]

As I said above it introduces another point where a static charge can be released.  I have spent $800 on grounding and bonding cables and if I used Mr Funnel I would need yet another cable to keep continuity. 

[sandpiper]

 I await word from you 5.2 gallon guys when seven decades and more have passed for you.

 

Have a very nice day

 

Farmer

So far, so good. Turning 70 this month and still trot up a ladder to refuel with a full 5 gallon Tuff Jug and no spills. Trot may be the wrong word. :unsure: Anyhow, I know what you mean as I approach the finish line.

[FlyingMonkey]

I use the Mr. Funnel funnel.

 

My filler port is kind of small, so a funnel of some type is required anyway.

 

I was under the impression that mogas is not filtered to the same extent as avgas. But even if that's an Old Wive's Tale (likely), each step from pump to can and from can to plane introduces the possibility of wayward dirt or contamination inserting itself somewhere, as Dan alluded to.

 

And the Mr. Funnel is no hardship to use, so why not?

 

I would use one on the retail pump end of the fuel transfer, but it would be too hard to use with the Tuff Jugs on the wing of the airplane.  Somebody above indicated you should not use one at a gas station...why?

[procharger]

Not sure why anyone would want to lift 5 gallon gas cans over the wing and up a ladder, Spend a little money and make it easier and safer just my 2 cents

[Doug G.]

Andy, it is in the Mr. Funnel web site that they advise against using it for filling at a station. I suspect it is concern about static.

[Doug G.]

Not sure why anyone would want to lift 5 gallon gas cans over the wing and up a ladder, Spend a little money and make it easier and safer just my 2 cents

1) I have no place to store a trailer - the airport won't allow it.

2) I have a short box on my truck, if I put a tank there I end up with a 4' box which is not much larger than the trunk on my car.

3) Is there some evidence that what you are talking about is safer than what I have been doing for the past two years? (Not to mention all the other devices I have filled with gasoline with non-sealed systems and open fillers and nozzles.)

4) I feel like I have already said all this.