Anticept Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 You keep repeating the same thing with NO proof Garmin says that at all.... And the mincing of words over pilotage versus using a navigation instrument is just a deflection. You claim the 796 is not a primary navigation device, you use the term 'critical'. I simply ask you to first define what 'critical' navigation is, and secondarily to show any Garmin company statement that disclaims the 796 as a primary navigation device. I did post proof about the popup messages, and S3flyer has backed me up for 796 specific implementation. That IS garmin's own statements. I was only making the point that even Garmin doesn't trust their own portables for "critical" navigation, which was meant to imply they wouldn't want them used as an ADS-B source either. "Critical" should in itself be understood to mean important, and possibly life threatening. I'm not trying to mince anyone's words (by the way, the word for that is "pedantic", or the act of being a "pedant"), You didn't have to outright attack me via condescending remarks. I reacted by providing proof of my claim and further clarified my point, and you're becoming offended by it, so I think it's best at this point that we discontinue discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 they wouldn't want them used as an ADS-B source I actually spoke with Garmin and have an email from both Garmin Support and Garmin Team X that you cannot use a 795/6 as a position source for a Garmin transponder since it does not provide all the information required for the ADS-B datastream. I also had a conversation and email with engineering at Trig who confirmed that the Garmin portables lacked the required information. Interesting, though,the non-certified Garmin G3X can provide the appropriate information and will work in the system pre-2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I think for VFR you can probably use anything you want including a road map. Just don't bust any airspace. For IFR, it has to be certified equipment and/or charts, etc. You can as long as you have the relevant information for the flight (frequencies, airspace, etc). It's easiest to have aeronautical charts and an A/FD I actually spoke with Garmin and have an email from both Garmin Support and Garmin Team X that you cannot use a 795/6 as a position source for a Garmin transponder since it does not provide all the information required for the ADS-B datastream. I also had a conversation and email with engineering at Trig who confirmed that the Garmin portables lacked the required information. Interesting, though,the non-certified Garmin G3X can provide the appropriate information and will work in the system pre-2020. Same with some autopilots. The GPS doesn't output enough information for more advanced autopilot functions (vertical guidance is incomplete, for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I think for VFR you can probably use anything you want including a road map. Just don't bust any airspace. As a datapoint, a guy at my airport uses a Garmin Nuvi automobile GPS as his only nav aid other than his eyeballs. I never really understood why...he's fairly wealthy and could afford whatever he wants, but he claims the Nuvi is perfectly adequate. He seems to get where he is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I forgot to add that other backup. My phone apps. As long as the engine keeps running and the wins stay on I should be able to get there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Listening to all you guys talk makes me wander how I ever manage to fly anywhere without all this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I have done it that way also, but I am a self confessed "gadget geek." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Here is the panel of a Taylorcraft that I restored. It was the Oshkosh 1994 grand champion antique. I flew this airplane all over the country before I sold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Here is the panel of a Taylorcraft that I restored. It was the Oshkosh 1994 grand champion antique. I flew this airplane all over the country before I sold it. Love it! During my training, I had refused to rely on my GPS because I had a feeling the examiner was going to turn it off. That's exactly what he did. These days I will sometimes change the map screen to something else and just pick a road and wander along it. (gives airspace warnings if I wander too close to something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Here is the panel of a Taylorcraft that I restored. It was the Oshkosh 1994 grand champion antique. I flew this airplane all over the country before I sold it. Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Listening to all you guys talk makes me wander how I ever manage to fly anywhere without all this stuff. Me too Tom, but I must admit, I love the technology. This stuff coming out really ramps up the situational awareness. There is just about no excuse now for anyone getting lost. I know . . . . it still happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 It may help with situational awareness, but the primary means for collision avoidance in VFR conditions is still looking outside the aircraft. I see far to often students and private pilots who have their head buried in the cockpit and not looking outside, because of all this new technology. There needs to be a balance, because when their head is buried inside they are having problems flying the airplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/in-the-air/avionics-safety/weather-solutions/gdl-84/prod511180.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 It may help with situational awareness, but the primary means for collision avoidance in VFR conditions is still looking outside the aircraft. I see far to often students and private pilots who have their head buried in the cockpit and not looking outside, because of all this new technology. There needs to be a balance, because when their head is buried inside they are having problems flying the airplane. Concur with that completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Me too Tom, but I must admit, I love the technology. This stuff coming out really ramps up the situational awareness. There is just about no excuse now for anyone getting lost. I know . . . . it still happens! Even before GPS I never got lost, there were just some times I didn't know where I was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Flying is so much easier now than it was 20 or 30 years ago.Navigation and systems management have gotten much easier, but there are other aspects which have remained the same. It does not matter whether you are flying a CTLS or a B-747 . . . Push the stick forward . . . the houses get bigger. Pull the stick back . . . the houses get smaller. Keep pulling the stick back . . . the houses get bigger . . faster! (not applicable to fully operational Airbus's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 (not applicable to fully operational Airbus's) That's when the boxing glove flies out of the tiller and punches you in the face for being a fool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 It may help with situational awareness, but the primary means for collision avoidance in VFR conditions is still looking outside the aircraft. I see far to often students and private pilots who have their head buried in the cockpit and not looking outside, because of all this new technology. There needs to be a balance, because when their head is buried inside they are having problems flying the airplane. The primary airplane references used to be outside the cockpit. Before we had good compasses and even attitude indicators, pilots flew by reference to the airplane. Both wings same distance above the horizon? Level. Engine sounds the same and horizon stays constant, probably level or at least constant pitch. Nearly all of us learned to make level turns by how the airplane structure looked against the horizon. Just the other day, a friend and I flew for an hour taking turns making turns up to 40° with the other pilot covering up all instruments. It's amazing (well, no it isn't, really) how well you can fly without any instruments at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/in-the-air/avionics-safety/weather-solutions/gdl-84/prod511180.html This is a very intriguing device, but my understanding is that it *only* talks using the wireless Garmin FlightLink system. That means you need a transponder that uses that wireless technology...GTX 327 & 330 need not apply. Add in the cost of a compatible transponder, and you are back to a $7k-8k solution. They are on the right track though...if they made this device with a hardwired interface wire to a transponder, it would be perfect for a lot of aircraft, including mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Love it! During my training, I had refused to rely on my GPS because I had a feeling the examiner was going to turn it off. That's exactly what he did. These days I will sometimes change the map screen to something else and just pick a road and wander along it. (gives airspace warnings if I wander too close to something) Great, when I,m sightseeing along the coast, or take somebody sight seeing, I don't use the GPS, except to tell me what town or airport I'm close to, and airspace is useful. Of course I have planed for airspace on the charts first, I know at what altitude I have to be at, depending on land marks. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 During my training, I had refused to rely on my GPS because I had a feeling the examiner was going to turn it off. That's exactly what he did. These days I will sometimes change the map screen to something else and just pick a road and wander along it. (gives airspace warnings if I wander too close to something) The airplane I trained in had a dock for a 496, but it was never in place while I trained in it. I never used a GPS during my training; I had a GPS in my flight bag during my solo cross country flights (unknown to my instructor... ) just in case, but it never even got turned on. I took my checkride using just the paper sectional, which looking back I think was very helpful. When I'm flying using just eyeballs, I always look for water; lakes and rivers have unique contours, and you can match your position on a sectional pretty quickly and easily that way. That might not work at all in west Texas, but it's pretty reliable here in Georgia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 From the air California looks like it does on the map. I've always been able to fly anywhere in the state without navigating. One of my favorite ways to cross the Serra Nevada is to randomly pick a canyon without identifying it and use to to cross west to east. The scenery is different every time and its always interesting to see where you end up. If you include diagonal crossings there are hundreds of ways to cross the Sierra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 From the air California looks like it does on the map. I've always been able to fly anywhere in the state without navigating. Not sure this is exactly what you meant. Isn't just knowing what fiction you are going some sort of navigation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Not sure this is exactly what you meant. Isn't just knowing what fiction you are going some sort of navigation? Looks like the word 'navigation' means a number of different things so you are correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigation Maybe I exaggerated, Maybe I can't fly anywhere in California without navigating but I bet I can easily fly home from any point in CA without needing 'navigation' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 fiction=direction (autocorrect!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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