gbigs Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Side note. I fly into and around Class B, C and D routinely. If you fly below a Class C shelf and you are not talking to ATC and you don't have ADS-B you are at risk. Especially if you fly toward or around VFR waypoints or across approach areas. Good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Dave, I've written to AOPA and EAA, as discussed earlier, about the use of WAAS capable portables being used for accurate possition reporting. Allowing them to ping the ATC ground stations for the complete traffic return could be a simple fix to an otherwise expensive (at least now) upgrade. We'll see if they'll post it in their "Letters Section" in an upcoming issue. Who knows, it may get some positive response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 My Garmin 796 works perfectly in my ADS-B setup. For those of you guessing how it works, you may want to actually buy some gear and try it out. I flew today under a Bravo shelf and had a very near target show up on my screen. We saw it fly by at the exact altitude, distance and direction the system displayed it. I also get free weather updates from the system too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I specifically asked that question (the mode C veil) and was told it does not matter as long as you are out of the B or C airspace. (I.e., under the shelf). If this is the case then I do not need ADS-B out. That would be great. However I have read differing opinions. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Side note. I fly into and around Class B, C and D routinely. If you fly below a Class C shelf and you are not talking to ATC and you don't have ADS-B you are at risk. Especially if you fly toward or around VFR waypoints or across approach areas. Good luck... Unless you have a Mode S transponder that will show you traffic I frequently fly under Tampa, and Miami class B without any trouble. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I don't think it's an opinion since the AC is pretty clear -- in my opinion Good news is there was an announcement for a fully compliance system from Navworx for $699 ($799 list): http://www.navworx.com/navworx_store/Experimental_Aircraft_Transceivers/ Quote: Remote Mount UAT Transceiver for Experimental & LSA aircraft. The ADS600-EXP offers full ADS-B OUT (transmit), and IN (receive) capabiliteis, deliverying traffic and weather to displays connected via internal WIFI and/or RS-232 serial channel. Sends Traffic & Weather to popular iPad apps like Hilton WingX, Adventure Pilot iFly-GPS, and Seattle Avionics FlyQ. Displays ADS-B Traffic & Weather (FIS- on non-proprietary systems such as Advanced Flight Displays (AFS), and Grand Rapid Technologies (GRT) EFIS's. Need to add an antenna, connection to your current transponder and, maybe, a GPS antenna. Let the price wars begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 If this is the case then I do not need ADS-B out. That would be great. However I have read differing opinions. Cheers ( "Except as provided for in § 91.225(e), within 30 nautical miles (NM) of an airport listed in part 91 appendix D (Mode C veil), s ection 1, from the surface upward to 10,000 feet mean sea level (MSL)" If this is true then its required where Mode C transponder is required. Is there something I'm not understanding ? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Anywhere a Mode C transponder is required now. For most of us that will include, as Dave posted, any altitude within class 'B' Airspace including the 30 NM ring. Class 'C', required within and above but not below. Class 'D' not required. Only two way communication needed before entering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Here are the two replies from EAA and AOPA re my letter to the editor's. Hi Anthony.docx AOPA ADS-B Reply.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 The new NavWorx transceiver for experimental (and maybe LSA) aircraft mentioned above sure got my attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Anywhere a Mode C transponder is required now. For most of us that will include, as Dave posted, any altitude within class 'B' Airspace including the 30 NM ring. Class 'C', required within and above but not below. Class 'D' not required. Only two way communication needed before entering. So why does it say from surface to 10,000 MSL ? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Anywhere a Mode C transponder is required now. For most of us that will include, as Dave posted, any altitude within class 'B' Airspace including the 30 NM ring. Class 'C', required within and above but not below. Class 'D' not required. Only two way communication needed before entering. That is my understanding from ground to 10,000 MSL in or outside Class B within 30 miles. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 The words are simply a description of the image which provides a pretty clear picture (pardon the pun): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 The words are simply a description of the image which provides a pretty clear picture (pardon the pun): This illustration seems to show all of Class B in addition to all airspace within 30 miles. In my case it would mean, all airports I fly from and to in Tampa and Miami, so that includes me. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I can't vouch for the FSDO. But my question was very specific, and I being the one who asked him to speak to our group I have that as one of the questions there was a great deal of confusion about. I don't know how it works elsewhere, but class B at MSP doesn't even want to talk to you unless you plan to enter the class B. The mode C veil is irrelevant. You don't even have to have an electrical system to fly inside the Mode C veil, right? Just don't get into class B. I thought this was clarification. Evidently it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Maybe the FSDO was relying on the - "unless otherwise authorized by ATC." Around MSP there are at least 5 fairly large and active GA airports within the 30 mile veil. I think there is going to be some modification of this rule. Not much sense in having ADS-B at 2500' (1500' AGL). Having said that by 2020 I will probably be compliant - whatever that turns out to mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I can't vouch for the FSDO. But my question was very specific, and I being the one who asked him to speak to our group I have that as one of the questions there was a great deal of confusion about. I don't know how it works elsewhere, but class B at MSP doesn't even want to talk to you unless you plan to enter the class B. The mode C veil is irrelevant. You don't even have to have an electrical system to fly inside the Mode C veil, right? Just don't get into class B. I thought this was clarification. Evidently it wasn't. Doug, you are correct that you don't even have to have an electrical system to operate inside the mode C veil. If you do have an electrical system you must have an operating mode C transponder to operate inside the mode C veil. Per CFR 91.225 after Jan 1,2020 if you have an electrical system you must have an operating ADS-B to operate inside the Mode C veil. Aircraft without an electrical system can still operate without any special equipment. The fact that they don't want to talk to you unless you are flying inside the class B has nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Yup, "...unless otherwise authorized by ATC...." That makes it clear, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Yup, "...unless otherwise authorized by ATC...." That makes it clear, doesn't it? Just like now with transponders, ATC can allow you into the airspace without a transponder or with a failed transponder on a case by case basis. The key here is they can let you in, but they don't have to let you in. The regulation gives them the right to issue the waiver, but does not require them to do so. I am sure they have guidance on when and how they can do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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