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CT4ME

Low Cost ADS/B solutions

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Here is a pic of the Echo Esx control panel.  I should have one next week and can provide more info.  I will start installation in my CTLS soon and keep you all posted.

Please contact me if you would like to order any of these products.

 

 

echoesx.jpg

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I'm very interested in the uAvionix setup.  I'd probably keep my Garmin transponder and go for the "echoUAT+SkyFYX-EXT bundle".  I just sent Shane at uAvionix a pretty lengthy email with some questions, when I get responses I'll post them here.  

Eric, if I end up ordering this setup and the pricing is the same, I'll get it through you to throw a few bucks back into the CT community.   :)

If I go this route I will try to get it installed before Page so I'll have it for the trip.

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Here are the questions and answers with Shane from uAvionix.  I didn't see anything in his answers I didn't like or found concerning:

 

1)  I read in the data sheet for the GPS portion of your solution, that it has a SIL = 3.  My understanding is that a SIL of 0 is required for 2020 ADS-B out compliance.  Am I missing something on that?  If so, does your product have an FAA letter of compliance or some other documentation that it does in fact comply with a the 2020 rules (for experimental aircraft, not certified aircraft)?  After the Navworx fiasco I'm a little scared of buying a product only to have the FAA say I can't use it due to compliance.
 
A: Actually in 14 CFR 91.227, the FAA says that a SIL=3 and SDA=2 is required for use beyond 2020.  A SIL and SDA of greater than 0 is required to be a participant of the ADS-B system, but 0, 1, etc is only good until 2020.  There are a bit confusing on these as they term it as “greater than 0”.  
 
Reference section 2 (iii) and (iv)
 
 
2) If I'm reading correctly, your UAT wirelessly reads your transponder squawk code from the transponder and sets its squawk to match.  I'm guessing it does that by listening on 1090MHz and taking the transponder signal output from the transponder antenna, since it will be by far the strongest signal on that frequency, is that correct?
 
A:  Correct the Echo wirelessly monitor the existing transponder using an internal reply monitor circuitry.  We actually have a Transponder Threshold that is fine tunable to compensate for older MOPS or more unique installs. 
 
 
3) Related to (2) above...what would happen if you were in close proximity to an aircraft with much stronger radiated power from its transponder antenna, say an airliner...could that confuse the UAT and cause it to squawk the airliner's code instead of your own?  I realize that would be a freak occurrence, I'm just trying to understand how all this works.
 
A: It is very unlikely and possibly to pick up another higher power transmission, but EchoUAT is tuned to optimally detect transponders within about 25 feet.  You’d have to be very, very close resulting in a runway incursion.  Additionally, this can be mitigated if notice by using the Transponder Threshold mentioned above. 
 
 
4) Is there some initial setup of the UAT/GPS required through an app over the UAT's wireless network?
 
A: Yes, the Echo Installer app for Apple or Android is used to configure the device to your N-number, ICAO, and install configurations.  It’s a free app and it’s very simple and straightforward to use.  
 
 
5) I use Garmin Pilot, but I'm guessing that there is no hope of ever supporting that app directly because of the proprietary data encoding Garmin uses, correct?  I guess I could use a GDL 39 to get the IN data to my iPad since I'd always be within my own ADS-B traffic "hockey puck", but then that is extra wires and an expensive device.  I'd be more likely to just switch to iFly or WingX. 
 
A: Correct, unless Garmin opens up their integration to other ADS-B devices, it will not work.  We’ve reached out to them and are on hold.  We do work with all other App like iFly, WingX, FlyQ, iFlight Planner and even FltPlan Go (Free).  You could use GDL39 for the In portion if Pilot is required.  
 
 
6)  Will the UAT and GPS antennae require a ground plane plate when used on composite structures?  I know my COM antenna has such a plate, but not sure on my transponder blade antenna.
 
A: Yes, if you are installing on a composite or Fabric
 
 
7) A friend wanted me to ask if you can use the existing transponder antenna for the UAT or if it needs it's own.  I'm guessing even if you used a cable T or splitter, you'd need a separate antenna to avoid the two signals transmitting simultaneously and stepping on each other.  Is that the case?
 
A: You will need 2 antennas.  One for Transponder and one for the UAT.  They are separate and need to be at least 3 feet away.  We also include the UAT antenna with the EchoUAT, so you will not need to purchase the antenna. 

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1 hour ago, CT4ME said:

Now, same product sold by Foreflight, under the name "Scout"

Gee . . . and it's not even ugly!

What were they think'n?

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On 7/2/2017 at 6:32 AM, Runtoeat said:

Consequently, I went with the iFly 740 GPS (Adventure Pilot) and installed the SkyGuard ADS-B TWX transceiver.  The iFly 740 uses the same Air Gizmo panel dock as the Garmin 696/796, has screen quality equal to (better?) than the Garmin and runs TruTrak autopilot.   

I'm still over thinking my options for becoming 2020 compliant and am now contemplating going with a uavionix echoUAT In/Out w/GPS ($1400) and replacing my AirGizmos mounted 795 with an iFly 740b ($600).  This allows me to remove my non-compliant Skyguard, Garmin GDL-39-3D and 795.  Current market value for a used 795 is around $850 and the GDL-39 is around $300.  My net cash outlay would be around $800.  I'd also save on subscriptions since I currently use iFlyGPS for my tablet and phone so could drop the $200/year from Garmin.

Dick -- have you seen the iFly 740 in a 796 Airgizmos mount?  I ask because iFly said they didn't think it would work.  Not a big deal since there is an AirGizmo mount for the 740 for around $115 and it looks to fit in the same cutout.

Just thinking aloud.

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I just purchased a Used CTLS with a Garmin 696 and am thinking the VERY same thing.  I have flown with the IFLY for many years and it just seems that moving the map around with the Garmins JoyStick is a bit time consuming and cumbersome.  I am told that the IFLY will tie into the Tru Trak  and it is much easier to use.  The ADSB IN option is also MUCH cheaper .. for under $150 and you dont have a large Antenna sitting on your dash.

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22 hours ago, S3flyer said:

I'm still over thinking my options for becoming 2020 compliant and am now contemplating going with a uavionix echoUAT In/Out w/GPS ($1400) and replacing my AirGizmos mounted 795 with an iFly 740b ($600).  This allows me to remove my non-compliant Skyguard, Garmin GDL-39-3D and 795.  Current market value for a used 795 is around $850 and the GDL-39 is around $300.  My net cash outlay would be around $800.  I'd also save on subscriptions since I currently use iFlyGPS for my tablet and phone so could drop the $200/year from Garmin.

Dick -- have you seen the iFly 740 in a 796 Airgizmos mount?  I ask because iFly said they didn't think it would work.  Not a big deal since there is an AirGizmo mount for the 740 for around $115 and it looks to fit in the same cutout.

Just thinking aloud.

If you are selling the GDL-39 3D for $300 or so, I'll take it if it's complete and working well.

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Hi Andy -- the GDL-39 3D works fine and is complete except for the cigarette lighter plug.  We used the wire to connect directly to ships power. It'll be late spring before I get around to this so I'll reach out then to see if you're still interested.

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Dave, just seeing your post.  I recall the 796 Air Gizmo could be used with the iFly 720 when I installed my system.  Not sure about the newer 740 GPS?  Perhaps changes were made to the exterior which prevents it from using the 796 Air Gizmo.  I'm curious why you say that your SkyGuard is "non-compliant"?  Do you have the TWX version of the Sky Guard which is "in/out"?  I haven't talked to Don Houtz @ Sky Guard in a while but he assured me during our last communication that my TWX is a "non-certified" ADS-B which meets FAA's 2020 rules for experimental and LSA and he has the FAA approval for this.  Am I wrong on this?  My iFly 720 combined with the Sky Guard seems to work flawlessly and I see and I am seen by all who I fly with.

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5 hours ago, S3flyer said:

Hi Andy -- the GDL-39 3D works fine and is complete except for the cigarette lighter plug.  We used the wire to connect directly to ships power. It'll be late spring before I get around to this so I'll reach out then to see if you're still interested.

Sounds good, I’m looking for exactly the same setup with ship’s power.

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10 minutes ago, Runtoeat said:

 I'm curious why you say that your SkyGuard is "non-compliant"?  Do you have the TWX version of the Sky Guard which is "in/out"?  I haven't talked to Don Houtz @ Sky Guard in a while but he assured me during our last communication that my TWX is a "non-certified" ADS-B which meets FAA's 2020 rules for experimental and LSA and he has the FAA approval for this.  Am I wrong on this?  My iFly 720 combined with the Sky Guard seems to work flawlessly and I see and I am seen by all who I fly with.

Dick -- I should've been more clear.  I have a generation 1 of the Skyguard transmitter that was compliant to the then draft standards.  The draft standards changed and my transmitter was not up-gradable.  Don was great and offered a generous trade-in against a new physical compliant unit but I decided to wait and see what options would be as the deadline approached. My unit transmitts a SIL=1 which continues to wake-up ground stations so it works for my purposes.  I just have to get compliant in the next 22 months.

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Dave, thanks for the reply.  I need to see what my unit transmits.  I did send this back and Don upgraded the GPS and also changed the SIL but I don't recall the particulars.  He sent it back with a note informing me that I meet 2020 but this seems to be a constantly changing landscape.  I need to check.  FWIW, I attended a FAA Wings Safety seminar last week where ADS-B was the topic.  The speaker said there are over 60,000 planes that will need ADS-B before 2020.  He said a lot of pilots he talks to seem to believe that the airlines are not going to meet the 2020 deadline so they aren't worried about it.  He stated that the airlines are going to meet the deadline and it is false perception that they will not.  He indicated that there will be strict enforcement by the FAA when 2020 arrives.

EDIT.  Dave, I checked and I do have the 740 and when I installed this the Air Gizmo did fit both the Garmin 796 and the iFly 740.  Also, I checked my notes and Don set my SDA to a "2" and the SIL to a "3" when I sent my unit in to him.  Do I recall there was an agreement between the FAA and "non-cert" manufacturers that the "non-certified" units transmit the SIL=3 so ATC will know this is a non-cert unit and the locations given may not be as highly accurate as the certified units?  I basically will rely on Don's confirmation that my unit is operating as expected and meets FAA requirements. 

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1 hour ago, Runtoeat said:

 

EDIT.  Dave, I checked and I do have the 740 and when I installed this the Air Gizmo did fit both the Garmin 796 and the iFly 740.  Also, I checked my notes and Don set my SDA to a "2" and the SIL to a "3" when I sent my unit in to him.  Do I recall there was an agreement between the FAA and "non-cert" manufacturers that the "non-certified" units transmit the SIL=3 so ATC will know this is a non-cert unit and the locations given may not be as highly accurate as the certified units?  I basically will rely on Don's confirmation that my unit is operating as expected and meets FAA requirements. 

You're good -- short answer is that SDA=2 and SIL=3 means you have a GPS that is compliant with the appropriate TSO (or performs the same).

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As probably have many others, I have requested an MRA from FD to add a Dynon SV-ADSB-472 Dual Band ADS-B Traffic and Weather Receiver for the Dynon Skyview system.  This will provide ADS-B “in” for an overhead view of traffic in the moving map display and a three dimensional view of traffic in the synthetic vision display.  About $800 for the unit and another $30 for the required transponder antenna.  These units have been on hold with Dynon due to some test issues.  They just told me that they have the updated unit and software coming in this week for testing and if it is good, they will be ready to resume shipments.  FD hasn’t approved this as an MRA yet due to the production hold by Dynon.  Will let you know when it is ready.

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I have installed this (although it is the single band unit - the dual did not yet exist) and received an MRA from FD USA for this unit and antenna, the replacement GPS antenna/receiver, and the Dynon transponder.

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Is the Echo control panel needed for the Uat Echo set up with the SKyFYX Gps source?

WF

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4 hours ago, 207WF said:

Is the Echo control panel needed for the Uat Echo set up with the SKyFYX Gps source?

WF

No control panel needed for the Echo UAT with SkyFYX.  Setup is performed via wifi app on your phone, after that it just does its job :) 

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5 minutes ago, coppercity said:

No control panel needed for the Echo UAT with SkyFYX.  Setup is performed via wifi app on your phone, after that it just does its job :) 

Hi Eric,

Any update on the install/testing of uAvionix echoUAT-SkyFYX?

That is the unit some of us are really interested in.

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9 hours ago, WmInce said:

Hi Eric,

Any update on the install/testing of uAvionix echoUAT-SkyFYX?

That is the unit some of us are really interested in.

I have tested the Echo Esx, Sky Beacon and SkyFYX but not yet installed the Echo Uat.  The Dynon dual band ADSB receiver is built by Uavionix and is the receive half of the Echo Uat so plenty of installs on those.  

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