FlyingMonkey Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Hey all... I have a few friends using the iFly 720 device. I have played with them and they seem very nice, approximately equivalent of a Garmin Aera unit, but with a larger screen. Has anybody mounted one of these in a CT and used it, especially with an autopilot? My 496 is great, but it's hard to use on the fly because of the interface and I'd love to have a touchscreen device to drive my autopilot. The NMEA output on the iFly should work fine for that. The 796 is nice but over twice as much money and uses a lot more panel space, maybe more than I have available. I primarily use the iPad for navigation, the panel mount GPS is just to drive the autopilot on longer trips. I'm wondering if I could sell the 496 and make enough from it to pay for the iFly 720 setup...I'm thinking I probably could. I checked at Oshkosh and the AirGizmo docks have the same dimensions, so I should be able to just pop out the 496 dock and pop in the iFly. I would miss the 496 integration with the radio though. I would not miss paying Garmin pricing for map updates. Full unlimited updates of everything on the iFly is $70/yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Koerner Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 I don't have an autopilot, but I have an iFly 720 in the plane and the Android version on a tablet and on my phone. I am very happy with this combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Thanks for the info on the 740, SportPilot. I'm interested to see what it does. I'm not throwing out my 496 anytime real soon, but I do realize it's a little long in the tooth and I'm casting about for replacement options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'm not throwing out my 496 anytime real soon, but I do realize it's a little long in the tooth and I'm casting about for replacement options.Same here Andy, with regard to my 396.I plan on replacing it when I eventually settle on an ADS-B in/out solution. About the only thing I use it for now is drawing a direct line to a cross country destination. It's a good backup . . . to the backup.???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Same here Andy, with regard to my 396. I plan on replacing it when I eventually settle on an ADS-B in/out solution. About the only thing I use it for now is drawing a direct line to a cross country destination. It's a good backup . . . to the backup. Yeah, you are lucky that you can use your nice Skyview to drive the autopilot. That's the main problem for me, the 496 drives my autopilot and setting up any flightpath in the 496 more than just a "direct to" is not much fun. This is especially true if you you want any of your waypoints to be arbitrary GPS locations and not airports or nav devices like VORs or NDBs. I'd leave the 496 in place is somebody would start making a wifi or Bluetooth dongle for an iPad that would talk to a transceiver and then output commands vie NMEA or ARINC 129 to an autopilot. If I could drive the AP through the iPad I'd be in hog heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Yeah, you are lucky that you can use your nice Skyview to drive the autopilot. That's the main problem for me, the 496 drives my autopilot and setting up any flightpath in the 496 more than just a "direct to" is not much fun. This is especially true if you you want any of your waypoints to be arbitrary GPS locations and not airports or nav devices like VORs or NDBs. I'd leave the 496 in place is somebody would start making a wifi or Bluetooth dongle for an iPad that would talk to a transceiver and then output commands vie NMEA or ARINC 129 to an autopilot. If I could drive the AP through the iPad I'd be in hog heaven. You won't see an iPad flying an aircraft anytime soon if ever. Some already think the 'portable' Garmin 796 should not be used in a cockpit. The Dynon to 796 to autopilot works perfectly. Better? Garmin G3X to GTN 750 to Garmin GSA 38 smart servos to Garmin GNC 305 autopilot panel with blue LVL button, IAS altitude hold and 3-axis control is unbeatable. This is the C4 panel. And the panel minus the GTN 750 coming to future CTs no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 You won't see an iPad flying an aircraft anytime soon if ever. I'll take that bet. I imagine you will see devices that do exactly this in the next 2-5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Andy -- I would call iFly and make sure they have specific installs of the iFly product running your version of the AP. I was going down the iFly 720 direction a couple years ago and there were very few examples of it running my Dynon AP. The installations at the time were reporting problems. In the end, I went with a 795 since I knew Dynon (and Trutrak) deal with Garmin interfaces on a frequent basis and any issues would likely be seen by a larger client base. I have heard great things about iFly's responsiveness and I'm confident they've addressed any issues. I just felt the incremental $500 was worth the piece of mind. YMMV. BTW -- Garmin annual subscription is only $99 for the Aera series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'll take that bet. I imagine you will see devices that do exactly this in the next 2-5 years. Nah...btw...we pay $99/yr for Garmin updates which include navigation data and obstacle...everything needed to get the 796 flight planning and flying courses. You want to pay 70/yr for the iFly kludge and change out your panel mount for a tablet solution (without an external GPS antenna)? Did you go E-LSA btw? Pulling your panel apart may run afoul of the S-LSA rules.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'll take that bet. I imagine you will see devices that do exactly this in the next 2-5 years. It's coming . . . it may not even be that long before it is offered. The technology is already there. The capability of the iPad is awesome and venders just keep making it better and better. And yes, I agree, IFly 740 is no kludge. Good unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 The reason I looked at iFly is that it fits in the same dock space as my 496 and has all the features I need. I'd still use the iPad as my primary, and the iFly to drive the autopilot and as backup. I just really want the touch screen rubber banding capability for setting up flight plans for the AP quickly. And yes, I'd get the MRA from FD before proceeding. As for use with an AP, the iFly uses a standard NMEA control output the same as the 496, so it *should* just work. The devil's in the details of course. The reasons I like this over the 795 are cost and the 795 dock might be too large for the panel space I have available in my airplane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 IFly 740 is no kludge. The question was not the 720/740 hardware device, it was iFly on an iPad flying the plane. That is not gonna happen. It looks like the little iFly chunk of hardware is an alternative to a Garmin portable (496, 696 and 796). Subscription $69/yr versus $99/yr and and about half the price of the equivalent Garmin hardware. Any change to the Flight Design in the panel will require permission from FD. Also, better make sure if you are running Dynon glass that the iFly hardware GPS source is compatible the same way Garmin is compatible. Same applies to the autopilot and servos and ADS-B if you are gonna hook that up to... Have fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 The question was not the 720/740 hardware device, it was iFly on an iPad flying the plane. That is not gonna happen. It looks like the little iFly chunk of hardware is an alternative to a Garmin portable (496, 696 and 796). Subscription $69/yr versus $99/yr and and about half the price of the equivalent Garmin hardware. Any change to the Flight Design in the panel will require permission from FD. Also, better make sure if you are running Dynon glass that the iFly hardware GPS source is compatible the same way Garmin is compatible. Same applies to the autopilot and servos and ADS-B if you are gonna hook that up to... Have fun... Nope. I was asking about installing an iFly DEVICE in the airplane. Somehow this turned into "an iPad will never drive an autopilot" to which I disagreed. I guess you turned that into "he wants to install an iPad running iFly software"...which I never said. Look at the original post I specifically mentioned the iFly 720. The iFly720/740 use NMEA output exactly like a 796. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 IFly 740 is no kludge. From Shane at IFly: Good question. The 740 is going to be twice as bright as the 720, and probably 2-3 times as bright as most tablets. Aside from that, the iFly 740 can drive an Autopilot, Fuel Flow, ELT and more without additional expensive hardware. It also has a much more powerful internal GPS than tablets like the Nexus 7, Samsung and iPad. This is even beneficial for those using ADS-B devices with a GPS as the iFly's internal GPS becomes a better, more powerful back up GPS to that ADS-B signal, should it be lost. And that happens fairly frequently with the ADS-B devices that I test and use. Personally, I would not feel comfortable depending on an internal battery for my GPS units or tablets. Even an iPad or Android drains the battery faster with an ADS-B device connected. They are fine for short flights, but I'd have a DC cable connected for peace of mind on cross country flights, or just in case it gets left on or I forgot to charge it in a rush. The new iFly 740 does have an internal battery for emergency backup, good for about 30-35 minutes of backup power. There are also many options to have an external battery to run the iFly 740 for an extended time. Also, in Texas and the south, heat and sun play havoc on many tablets like the iPad and Nexus 9. The iFly can handle higher temps. Many pilots are looking for a "Dedicated Aviation Device". Tablets are great "jack of all trades, master of none units", but there is something to be said about a Sunlight Readable, Closed Platform, Dedicated Aviation GPS Device. For me I like to use the 720/740 as my main portable, then use the iPad Mini as my backup. Further, I have my iPhone 6+ for my device that is with me at all times and is cell data connected. Just gives me 3 layers of awareness and all can run on the same subscription. Good question and hopefully I've given some good reasons. Again, it really comes down to pilot preference, budget and flying demands, but we feel there is a place for both the iFly GPS App and our dedicated devices like the 740. The 740 sounds like a really nice device that compares favorably (or even better than the 79x) given it's newer vintage. Andy -- so do you plan to try for an LOA or go E-LSA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 The 740 sounds like a really nice device that compares favorably (or even better than the 79x) given it's newer vintage. Andy -- so do you plan to try for an LOA or go E-LSA? It all depends on the timing. If I do it near term, it will need an MRA/LOA. I plan to go E-LSA eventually, so if any change is made after that point, then I will authorize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofadoc Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Andy, I fly a Tecnam Sierra and have the same issues you do with the Garmin 496. Panel space is a premium. I looked at the size of the IFly 720 and the airgizmo dock size and it was much bigger. Do you have a way to do it that I am missing? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Andy, I fly a Tecnam Sierra and have the same issues you do with the Garmin 496. Panel space is a premium. I looked at the size of the IFly 720 and the airgizmo dock size and it was much bigger. Do you have a way to do it that I am missing? Thanks! I talked to AirGizmo at Oshkosh, they said the iFly dock and the 496 dock have the same external dimensions. Hopefully that was not incorrect. I was thinking of mounting in portrait orientation to give more view ahead on the device, so that should help too. Of course, my old jalopy beater car just took a header, so I need to buy a car...any panel change plans just got put on hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Don't think you'll fit a 7" product in the same place as a 5". The 496 Airgizmo is 6.25" x 4.25" and the iFly 720 is 6.25" x 7.2". I'm guessing that the folks at Oshkosh were stating it could fit in the same panel width? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Show us your panel Morden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Without seeing the right side also, it appears you have a ton of room in the center. Move the placards and place what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Andy, Did you decide yet on your iFly GPS unit? I've been thinking about one as a back-up to Skyview and wonder if the 720s will be cheaper now that the 740 is out, or whether to just go with the 740, especially as they're better in sunlight. I was thinking iPad but I've heard folks say they overheat and don't read so well in direct sunlight. Any thoughts? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Andy, Did you decide yet on your iFly GPS unit? I've been thinking about one as a back-up to Skyview and wonder if the 720s will be cheaper now that the 740 is out, or whether to just go with the 740, especially as they're better in sunlight. I was thinking iPad but I've heard folks say they overheat and don't read so well in direct sunlight. Any thoughts? Thanks. No, any upgrades are on hold at the moment, since I had to do unscheduled maintenance on the airplane's tail and my current avionics are working fine right now. As for the iPad, I find that it's plenty readable, though somewhat dim in certain conditions. It's never been to the point of unreadable. Might be different in a bubble like an RV-12 or Sky Arrow. Never had heat problems either. Look at post #22 for where mine is mounted. In that spot the pop-out vent blows air directly on the back of the iPad, which I'm sure helps a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 We all use Ipad's at my field in our CT's. I live in Tucson, AZ. Heat isn't an issue. We all block off the top window and about 15" in front of the spar tunnel. Makes all the glare go away, makes reading instruments easy, it is cooler in the shade and easier on the eyes. p.s. And your head doesn't get sunburned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 We all use Ipad's at my field in our CT's. I live in Tucson, AZ. Heat isn't an issue. We all block off the top window and about 15" in front of the spar tunnel. Makes all the glare go away, makes reading instruments easy, it is cooler in the shade and easier on the eyes. p.s. And your head doesn't get sunburned. I'd be interested in what you use to block the windows. Pics? I like the overhead skylight in theory for visibility, but in reality you have to be in a 60° bank or directly under another airplane to see anything useful through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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