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Fully loaded America's edition CTLSi available soon

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CTLSi

Americas

Edition

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dual Dynon 10 inch Skyview ; Garmin GTR 225 Com & Dynon Mode S; PM3000 Stereo Intercom w/IPOD jack; Oil & Coolant Thermostat system; 2 Bose ANR 20 headsets; 100 HP Rotax 912ULS FI engine; Stainless steel exhaust; 3 Blade Neuform propeller; Garmin 796 GPS-XM; 406 Mhz ELT w/remote panel Three axis trim system; Leather Seats; Cabin heater; Wheel pants & gear fairings; FD Night Flight package; Sliding air vents; Gull wing doors w/gas struts; BRS 1350 HS parachute system; LED strobes and position lights; Door locks; Parking brake;  Fire extinguisher and CO Detector; 4 point pilot harnesses; 12V accessory plug; FD Prop cover, No bounce composite main landing gear; 

Leather Seats: Color Brown Leather 

Avionics Package Dynon Skyview touch (10” Dual Screen)

Dynon SkyView Integrated 2-axis A/P (pitch & roll)

Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery (Light Weight)

Electric trim

LED Landing Light

Upgrade Dynon SV-ADSB-470

Tundra Tires and Fairings

West Coast Shipping

US government Fees for security & processing

Registration for US N numbers

 

Color Scheme:  Americas Version

 

 

 

Total:  173,420.00

 

Can you list all the specs, as far as weights, baggage, fuel etc for this particular airplane? What's the year?

 

Any photos and is this airplane ready for delivery or does it have to be ordered?

 

Really well equipped I have to say.

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Can you list all the specs, as far as weights, baggage, fuel etc for this particular airplane? What's the year?

 

Any photos and is this airplane ready for delivery or does it have to be ordered?

 

Really well equipped I have to say.

 

Top Cat, this aircraft is a stunning state of the art product.  It will have it all...the 912iS fuel injected engine with the upgraded sport package, twin Dynon 10 inch skyviews with autopilot, the Garmin 796 touch screen GPS/WAAS for navigation, and tundra tires....give coppercity a call and see if you can get this plane before it ships to the USA.

 

Btw, the standard specs are a 1320 max gross.  110lbs baggage.  the useful load will be a little less than the older planes due to the upgraded engine (no carbs) and upgraded avionics.  But you will get a 30% increase in fuel efficiency with this engine over the older planes, so less fuel is needed to get well over 1000 mi range.

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Buy it and sell me your RV12.

 Um, no :P …..I looked at the CTLSi at Sebring and thought it was nice but I liked the Tecnam better. That said both were much more expensive than the RV-12 and the Vans' pretty much does everything I want in MY mission.

 

I was just asking about the ACTUAL details of THIS airplane. I'm guessing now that there isn't a plane in inventory so no picture and no actual specs regarding weights etc for the actual plane. Coppercity is looking for an order.

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Top Cat, this aircraft is a stunning state of the art product.  It will have it all...the 912iS fuel injected engine with the upgraded sport package, twin Dynon 10 inch skyviews with autopilot, the Garmin 796 touch screen GPS/WAAS for navigation, and tundra tires....give coppercity a call and see if you can get this plane before it ships to the USA.

 

Btw, the standard specs are a 1320 max gross.  110lbs baggage.  the useful load will be a little less than the older planes due to the upgraded engine (no carbs) and upgraded avionics.  But you will get a 30% increase in fuel efficiency with this engine over the older planes, so less fuel is needed to get well over 1000 mi range.

Okay, this was my ACTUAL question:-

 

"Can you list all the specs, as far as weights, baggage, fuel etc for this particular airplane? What's the year?

 

Any photos and is this airplane ready for delivery or does it have to be ordered?"

 

All you've done is recite the Flight Design brochure. I was simply asking for  the ACTUAL specs for the ACTUAL plane and perhaps a photo is all.

I was presuming the plane was in the USA in inventory. 

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I have this plane on order and hoping it will be here in the fall. That said I don't have the actual weight and balance yet or a real in my hanger picture. It is S/N F14-09-08.

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If it weighs 12 pounds, that's 2 gallons of fuel. To me, that's significant. I'll opt for no parachute if buying an LSA where useful load is an issue.

At the risk of sounding snarky (I really do not intend so), I think I'd rather have the chute if the engine packs it in over mountains. An extra 2 gals of fuel when the big fan stops prematurely doesn't seem a fair trade for a vertical touch down in otherwise airplane-killing terrain.

 

Not to mention that, even with 504lbs useful, I can still fly to the limits of my bladder capacity!

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 The shame of it is that the demo pilots stressed how the plane is designed and capable of carrying much more, but not legally. 

 

This is what I was hoping someone would bring up. When I took delivery of my 811.29 lb. 2012 CTLS from Lone Mountain, we took off in early September with a DA likely approaching 5000ft. Full fuel, light bags and two "over FAA standard" people. Filled with anxiety, my seasoned passenger assured me that 1320 was the regulation and not the rule. Yeah, right. Perhaps foolish but after I checked CG and agreed to go, we managed a 500-600fpm climb, no problem. Oil temps barely flirting with the Yellow arc. Impressive.

 

In Oregon I commonly fly in negative DA where the ground is near sea level so full fuel and two people is common and given little thought. I flew one of the few Gobosh 800XP LSAs in the US before the CT and in my experience it too performed just fine when 1320 was (not grossly) exceeded. Same 912ULS (but horrible oil cooling). Anyway, I respect the considerable experience many on this forum possess and my <1000 PP hours might still put me in a camp reserved for the naive but I've always wondered what the real limit is on these planes. Clearly they perform well beyond the max gross number specified by the category.

 

It was the very thinking expressed about this Americas Edition and the weight concerns everyone is discussing that kept me from a CTLSi. Yet knowing what I know now I might not have made the same decision given the real world performance of these aircraft. I hope no one (including me) ever finds out but I wonder what that limit really is.

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TomH:

 

Remember that floats make the weight magically increase to 1430 lbs. These planes are definitely capable of a significantly heavier weight.

 

I'm not sure the reasoning for the 1320 limit, as it does feel sort of arbitrary, but they will still fly over limit, as most planes will. Not recommended of course, but if the zombie apocalypse ever came, know you can put in a lot more than 1320 to escape to a tropical island! :P

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Filled with anxiety, my seasoned passenger assured me that 1320 was the regulation and not the rule. Yeah, right. Perhaps foolish but after I checked CG and agreed to go, we managed a 500-600fpm climb, no problem.

 

The 1,320 lb limit may be somewhat arbitrary, but...

 

...best to remember that very often gross weight limits are shaped by structural limitations, not performance limitations.

 

Heard this misunderstanding from time to time in the Cirrus world as well, where owners sometimes crowed about how well their planes climbed, even over gross.

 

That's all well and good until the wrong gust at the wrong time manages to take the wings off. Or something less drastic, but you get the idea.

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This formula in part is where the 1320 limit comes from. I remember there was a reason for the 1320, but for the life of me I can't remember the exact reason. The original thinking was these were supposed to come from the fat Ultralight people. I don't think anyone envisioned today's aircraft when the rule was first drafted.

It would be nice if they increased it up to 1500 lbs. The CT can certainly handle that without any issues. remember that if you install floats the weight is 1430 without any structural changes just based on the new weight. The Swiss pilots flew around the world at 1645.  The CT is a very capable aircraft if the weight was increased and it would hurt the CG. 

1/2 the HP + 2x 190 (2 passengers) = 430 lbs. This is what needs to be left over from the aircraft max empty weight to qualify for LSA.  So an LSA can't weigh over 890 lbs. max empty weight

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Roger, It is my understanding that the formula for how much useful load a LSA needs to have was changed sometime in the last year or so.

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The original LSA rule was something like 1050lb, EAA howled and FAA increased it to something  ~1200lb.  The howling continued and the FAA agreed to make it similar to other countries' advanced microlight category, 600kg (1323lb).

 

EAA's argument was more structure = more crash protection.

 

FAA's argument was more mass = more impact energy.

 

They met somewhere in the middle.

 

I'm sure the CT, and most modern LSA models, could fly well above published gross weight safely.  Mine has good load and I don't fly it that way, but it would not scare me to do so if it were an emergency (not sure what kind of emergency would require that...maybe a zombie apocalypse or the second coming of Elvis).

 

The only concern with the CTSW at high weight is the landing gear.  In a firm landing an over-gross CTSW is putting a lot of stress on already not-so-beefy landing gear.  The newer CTLS composite gear is probably less of a problem in this regard.

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Don't make bad landings. LOL

The CT actually flies and handles better over weight. 1430 for floats no big shake.

 

I often fly my CTSW at ~ 1,000lbs gross.  Add some thermals and it is a handful.  Fly it heavier and it does become much more stable but the steep climb angle disappears. 

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This formula in part is where the 1320 limit comes from. I remember there was a reason for the 1320, but for the life of me I can't remember the exact reason. The original thinking was these were supposed to come from the fat Ultralight people. I don't think anyone envisioned today's aircraft when the rule was first drafted.......

 

Final LSA Rule attached.  See bottom of page 66 and top of page 67.

 

I own a CTLSi.  It weighs 838 lbs.  With me in it (that's why I bought it) and some pilot supplies its a round 1,000. That leaves 320 pounds useful load.   I find that enough for my flying.  If I weighed 250 pounds I would have looked for a different plane.  

LSA final_rule.pdf

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At the risk of sounding snarky (I really do not intend so), I think I'd rather have the chute if the engine packs it in over mountains. An extra 2 gals of fuel when the big fan stops prematurely doesn't seem a fair trade for a vertical touch down in otherwise airplane-killing terrain.

 

Not to mention that, even with 504lbs useful, I can still fly to the limits of my bladder capacity!

 

The most underestimated limitation on this forum to date is . . . human bladder capacity.

 

When I ferried my new CTSW back from San Jose to Tampa in March '14, the longest leg I flew was 3+50 . . . and that was more than enough.  My butt has about a 2+30 limit.

That withstanding, it was very comforting to know, even after 3+50, I still had plenty of fuel remaining when I landed.

IMHO, there is a lot to be said for 33 gallons of usable fuel (CTSW).  Although, in order for me to have that legally available, I usually have to fly solo (with published baggage weight limits).

 

My documented allowable payload is 572#.

CTSW suits my mission well.

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Get an LOA to install a bathroom in the back...

 

But anyways, I've carried bottles with me. Very clearly marked.

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Okay, this was my ACTUAL question:-

 

"Can you list all the specs, as far as weights, baggage, fuel etc for this particular airplane? What's the year?

 

Any photos and is this airplane ready for delivery or does it have to be ordered?"

 

All you've done is recite the Flight Design brochure. I was simply asking for  the ACTUAL specs for the ACTUAL plane and perhaps a photo is all.

I was presuming the plane was in the USA in inventory. 

 

Coppercity ordered the plane.  He has the invoice.  He is offering it here because it is likely about to be or may actually be shipping right now.  Coppercity will assemble and deliver it no doubt.  He has the status, suggest you IM him.

 

 The useful load depends on what is configured on the aircraft, for instance ADS-B adds weight.  The baggage limit is 110lbs. from a W&B standpoint, how much baggage you take depends on fuel, people. 

 

The unique thing about the new CTLSi is the 912iS engine and the latest Dynon Skyview and Garmin products.  And in this case the special paint and signature limited edition aspect.  As I pointed out, the 912iS engine weighs 40lbs more than the 912ULS engine, but it is fuel injected (no carbs), and has a FADEC like solid state computerized management system.  The new planes also have the new air breather and upgraded gear box clutch via the sport upgrade.  These planes have higher torque, faster climb, faster cruise at lower RPM and MUCH better fuel efficiency - 30% greater than the 912ULS.   This means you can carry 30% less fuel and get the same range as the older engine and that translates into weight savings.

 

The Americas Limited Edition is described and pictured in this brochure:  http://www.hamptonairfield.com/CTLSDealer/limitededition.pdf

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Get an LOA to install a bathroom in the back...

 

But anyways, I've carried bottles with me. Very clearly marked.

 

I experimented with a bottle.  Very difficult, due to the seat angle.  I'm no good at peeing uphill.  Is there a trick I'm missing?

 

BTW, there are drain holes in the bottom of the plane.  drill one out a little and you could run a relief tube...  :)

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I experimented with a bottle.  Very difficult, due to the seat angle.  I'm no good at peeing uphill.  Is there a trick I'm missing?

 

BTW, there are drain holes in the bottom of the plane.  drill one out a little and you could run a relief tube...  :)

Catheterized flying - it's the future!

 

Imagine the check list !!

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I experimented with a bottle.  Very difficult, due to the seat angle.  I'm no good at peeing uphill.  Is there a trick I'm missing?

 

Andy . . . try hanging it over the side . . . into the bottle.   :D

No need to go "uphill."

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The most underestimated limitation on this forum to date is . . . human bladder capacity.

 

When I ferried my new CTSW back from San Jose to Tampa in March '14, the longest leg I flew was 3+50 . . . and that was more than enough.  My butt has about a 2+30 limit.

That withstanding, it was very comforting to know, even after 3+50, I still had plenty of fuel remaining when I landed.

IMHO, there is a lot to be said for 33 gallons of usable fuel (CTSW).  Although, in order for me to have that legally available, I usually have to fly solo (with published baggage weight limits).

 

My documented allowable payload is 572#.

CTSW suits my mission well.

We should go flying some day. I'm at KLAL hangar 74

 

Cheers

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