Never flown through mountains

[Doug G.]

I want to come to Page this year but as a flat lander I am a bit intimidated by the mountains. I have gone through the AOPA course, but my real questiona are about where exactly to cross (I'd prefer not going all the way to Albuquerque.), and any tips specific to an LS.

I would also like to know if there is anyone I can meet up with along the way. I live in NW MN.

Thanks in advance, Doug G.

[Ed Cesnalis]

KCPR - KPGA   looks pretty strait forward

 

[Roger Lee]

For the size of the mountains you'll encounter it should be pretty easy. Just give them a little altitude and you'll be good.

Should be someone here coming he can hook up with.

[Doug G.]

CT, straight forward, but max. terrain is about 10,700'. Is that the best way to fly this? Or, is it better to follow roads and passes?

[azleejay]

Plan to cross early in the day to avoid additional turbulence from daytime heating.

Practice flying your CTLS at at the altitudes you expect in crossing the mountains while near home to get the feel and build confidence. 

See you in Page!

[Roger Lee]

You can always detour around the tallest peaks.

[Rich]

Hi Doug,

 

Sparky Imeron has a book out called "MountaIn Flying" I would reccomend it to anyone who plans on flying through or in mountanous terrain.

We had to read that book to pass a mountain flying course in the CAP, as well as do the actual mountain flying in NY. It's a great book.

 

I have loaned the book out to flying buddies throughout the years.

 

Unfortunately, Sparky died on a flight through the mountains.

[Ed Cesnalis]

CT, straight forward, but max. terrain is about 10,700'. Is that the best way to fly this? Or, is it better to follow roads and passes?

 

8,839' is the max per the route elevation profile.  Looks to me that the only thing you need to go around is the restricted area.  This is more of a high desert route than a mountain crossing,  I don't see where you need a pass.

 

I think you need to 'fly' this on Google Earth or a flight sim that can give you a realistic look of the flight from 10,000'.

[C ICEY]

Mountains are the ONLY reason to go flying!

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmfufN0a67o

 

 

No new vids recently, but enjoy more at https://www.youtube.com/user/ICEYtheCT/featured

 

cheers

Mike

 

[C ICEY]

PS......

 

Pick your days.....

grin

[gbigs]

There are two things to consider when flying higher terrain with mountains. 

 

1. where will you go down.  Tango has been flying them so long he is probably okay with skimming saddles and just to the side of the peaks.  The mortals go around the high stuff, nothing over 6k, follow the roads and avoid the ridges where the turbulence is always waiting to give you a roller-coaster ride.

 

2.remember to space your 'legs' to be within a few nm of an airfield where you can touch down if tired, or get too much turbulence, or need fuel or food/pee.

 

The weather is critical.  Check for airmets (and don't even go if sigmets).  Check the wind at the cruise altitude you want.  Avoid any convective weather entirely, esp  mountain waive situations where you will see the winds create little cirrus clouds across a valley between peak ranges.  In general if you see an airmet at 18k feet you will see wind/turbulence at 10k.

 

File a flight plan of course, and call WXBRIEF before departure and get updates along the by trying to get as much flight following as you can.   The last time I flew from Chino, CA to Las Vegas the turbulence was sudden, ferocious, and spotty.  While on flight following a lot of pilots and ATC were giving out regular PIREPS on the wind which did help a little.

 

The deserts are always going to get lift turbulence on a hot day after 10am.  So plan your arrival if possible in the morning once you reach southern Utah and Arizona.

[Doug G.]

8,839' is the max per the route elevation profile. Looks to me that the only thing you need to go around is the restricted area. This is more of a high desert route than a mountain crossing, I don't see where you need a pass.

 

I think you need to 'fly' this on Google Earth or a flight sim that can give you a realistic look of the flight from 10,000'.

Strange, Garmin Pilot shows 10,668 going over the Henry Mountains. Wouldn't take much of a jog to the south to make it much lower. I'll do the Google Earth thing.

Thanks.

[Doug G.]

Rich, I will look for the book. Thanks for the tips everyone.

[Doug G.]

ICEY, if that were the case, I wouldn't be flying. I live in one of the flatest (and windiest) places in the country.

[Ed Cesnalis]

CasperToPage.kmz

 

I made a google earth file of the fllight from Casper at 10,000', I really like the South Utah/Az part.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Mike's videos are inspiring.  I jinxed the Sierra Nevada by buying a GoPro a couple of years back, it hasn't snowed since.  Actually Mammoth Mountain still has good skiing but on a marginal snowpack.

 

One piece of advice for this trip south, have an awareness of the winds so you can avoid the  lee side turbulence.  

[CT4ME]

Doug,

I understand your concern, as one of my first significant flights was Phoenix-Seattle-Boise-SLC-Page, where we flew much at 11,500+. 

 

As said here before, flying OVER mountains is different than "mountain flying".  If you can avoid the highest peaks by detouring slightly and stay a couple thousand above the others, it's no different than any other cross country flight.  Early flying will make all the difference.  If there's weather, especially high winds, a diversion through ABQ would only add a couple hours.  I like the KCPR-KPGA route, too.  10.5k would get you over everything easily, and the CT flies very nicely at that altitude.  It seems high, but not when you realize that non-mountainous "flat" areas are 4-5k.  

 

If you do this route, be sure to drop down and follow the lake down to Page.  It may be the most scenic flight of your life.

[FastEddieB]

Rich, I will look for the book. Thanks for the tips everyone.

 

I have it if you'd like to borrow it. PM me if interested.

 

Anyway, when leaving Moriarty, NM for Page an instructor there looked at our pretty much direct route and warned against it. He made the point that there was some VERY desolate country along that route and help might be a long time coming if we had a problem. He suggested a dogleg route that kept us over at least sparsely populated areas and roads, albeit often dirt roads. And that's what we did.

 

"Direct To" is always tempting, but even moderate doglegs don't seem to add substantial time to a flight.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Strange, Garmin Pilot shows 10,668 going over the Henry Mountains. Wouldn't take much of a jog to the south to make it much lower. I'll do the Google Earth thing.

Thanks.

 

Avoid R-6413 by going east and you will avoid the Henry Mountains.  

 

The marker on the image below is the 10,688' peak.  When looking at the wide view you can see it is not an issue, just avoid it, plenty of room there.

 

[Ed Cesnalis]

Interesting flight.  How do you make a kmz file?  That would be entirely too much flight time over barren land.  I think I would look for a flight path over more populated route to the east, even if the total distance was significantly longer.

 

I made a path then 'played a tour' of the path and used the recorder to record it.

 

Coming home from the 1st Page fly-in with a big headwind I got hypodermic, I needed tape on my radiator and the leg to Tonopah, NV took forever with no airports en-route. 

[Ed Cesnalis]

I don't know what any of this means.  Is this all done within Google Earth?

 

Yes

[Ed Cesnalis]

This is a capture from the google earth recording.  The high peak to the right is the 10,737' Mt Hilers  with a prevailing west wind it would make sense to follow the road and be on the windward side of Mt Holmes.  If it were a bad lee side day I would probably get to the west of Mt Hilers.

 

[Ed Cesnalis]

If you don't want to go north of the Colorado Rockies you could go around to the south, Durango instead of Casper.

 

I would ask myself this, Do I want my 2nd day of flying to begin in Wyoming or Nebraska?  The northerly route would be remote but entertaining for all of day 2.  The southerly route becomes entertaining in the last few hours.

[DocRon]

Hi Doug,

 

Looking forward to seeing you again!  When I flew down from there I stopped at Hot Springs, SD and Grand Junction, CO, before going into Page,  You would have two fairly long legs and a short one.  On the leg between Hot Springs and Grand Junction swing a bit to the right (a bit south of Rawlins, WY) to stay away from the high altitudes.  This route worked well for me and kept me below 10000 feet and avoids most mountain turbulence.  Just a suggestion.

[C ICEY]

For what my two bit opinion is worth...

 

 

Always consider the environmental energy inputs for the day you wish to travel in the mountains.

 

  Wind direction and strength,

  Forecast adiabatic lapse rate, and timing.

  Sun intensity and heating vector on terrain 

 

Imagine the effect of wind direction on a ridge, and respect lee turbulence.  Review the dynamics of lee wave and apply it to your flight path.

Recognize that slopes which face the sun will heat and trigger thermals more readily, and thermals typically release over the highest terrain as the warmer air rises uphill along the slope.  Mountains typically trigger thermals earlier in the day than flatland because of sun angles.

 

As sun intensity increases through the day, thermic instability increases, so try to fly as early in the day as possible, (with consideration for strength of the prevailing wind), for the most benign condition.

 

Understand that my mountains are not like your mountains!

Enjoy making educated choices, and learn from each flight

Be ready to wait for better conditions.