Ed Cesnalis Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/89611087/Gainesville%20to%20Lincolnton.kmz Boring little flight I've probably made 100 times. Sorry for the hijack, just trying to figure this out. Good job, try tilting your camera angle so that you get some of the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Hi Doug, Think of it this way. None of us had ever flown over any mountains until the first time. Your first time is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Even with your throttle firewalled you cannot realize 75% power when cruising above 7,500'. More throttle and more RPM makes sense when cruising 9,500 and above. Your fuel burn will limit itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N89WD Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Doug, If it don't feel right it probably isn't. Allow for delays. Happy Trails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Wow! Thanks for all the input. Now I can add trip planning to doing my hose change, my condition inspection, and my BFR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 CT, a couple of questions about the Durango route - I know Durango is in the mountains. Where would your stop before and after be? Or isn't altitude a problem. Also would you fly into LaPlata-Durango or Animas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 CT, a couple of questions about the Durango route - I know Durango is in the mountains. Where would your stop before and after be? Or isn't altitude a problem. Also would you fly into LaPlata-Durango or Animas? Durango to Page is easy, approaching Durango does have terrain above 10k to cross. Pick and airway like V210 and cross at 12,000' or go to New Mexico. I still like the Casper route better. If you need help climbing to 12,000' zero flaps makes a big difference and of course use WOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Is there a lower route not too far away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Is there a lower route not too far away? I think the idea from the beginning was to avoid going all the way to Albuquerque. The Utah route is shorter and plenty low otherwise its cross a couple of ridges over 10k or go to Albuquerque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Durango to Page is easy, approaching Durango does have terrain above 10k to cross. Pick and airway like V210 and cross at 12,000' or go to New Mexico. I still like the Casper route better. If you need help climbing to 12,000' zero flaps makes a big difference and of course use WOT. Climb to 12k in your little Flight Design and be ready to CFIT. LIke I said, Tango likes to take risks in his machine....others should not do it unless you want real trouble. You get any kind of downdraft, or turbulence at 12k over mountain in a Flight Design and you are toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I don't think there is any issue at 12k over a 10K peak. No real difference flying over a 6k peak at 8k. Just higher up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I don't think there is any issue at 12k over a 10K peak. No real difference flying over a 6k peak at 8k. Just higher up. And you can always approach at an angle and turn away if it's not working out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I don't think there is any issue at 12k over a 10K peak. No real difference flying over a 6k peak at 8k. Just higher up. There is one major difference, at 8,000' your CT can develop full cruise power (75% or 75hp) but at 12,000+ you won't be able to produce 60%, your max hp will be in the fifties. To make matters worse your prop isn't optimized for 12,000'+. Bottom line is the amount of reserve power available for climbing is very little at 12,000' so you will be unable to even maintain altitude when you encounter sink. A 2nd difference is pilot performance. Above 12,000' O2 levels take their toll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Not being experienced at flying a low hp normally aspirated airplane at those altitudes, personally, I would take a more easterly route and then cut straight across. Even if you add 3 hours each way, it's still 2 days down and 2 days home, as far as I can tell. Too boring, best idea is to plan 3 days out and 2 days back. OutDay 1 fight head wind and make Wyoming Day 2 tour Yellowstone either from air or on the ground or both Day 3 Fly south to Page over Canyon Lands and Arches and the rare beauty that is Utah BackDay 1 Make Casper Day 2 enjoy the tailwind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I've been trying to get Google Earth to show me the flight, all I have managed so far is having it jump from Casper to Page. Any hints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I've been trying to get Google Earth to show me the flight, all I have managed so far is having it jump from Casper to Page. Any hints? Create a path with the tool from the tool bar. Set the path's altitude to 3,048m use tools / touring and set the camera angle to 60* After creating the path use the touring tool to fly the path. When you take the tour the various markers are clickable for photos and stats on the mts ...etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I don't think there is any issue at 12k over a 10K peak. No real difference flying over a 6k peak at 8k. Just higher up. The diff is you are toying with the ceiling of the aircraft in terrain that can bite you. See POH 2.9 below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 That isn't even close to a CT ceiling. FD says 14K, Rotax says 16k and I have two friends that have been over 18k. Many of us that have flown cross countries over tall mnts. have been to 12-14K numerous times. Anyone who flies around the Rockies or the Sierra's have been there prob ably multiple times. When we fly from at the Page,AZ fly in and go over the Grand Canyon from the south to the north are all at 11.5-12K. Personally if I could fly around a 10K peak without a huge detour I probably would, but if it was too far out of my way I would just over fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I couldn't get over 13.2. Of course, I live near sea level and I wonder if i have to repitch to get higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 13,500 just south of SLC, at request of ATC, but had to go back to 0 degrees on the flaps. 'Still had 100+ fpm climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I bet the factory numbers are at cruise ( -6° ) flap setting. Has anybody gone to 15° flaps to help ceiling? I wonder what that would get you. You'd be flying slower, but there's a lot of lift there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 You can make the flight levels but you have to ride the wave to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 When you get to those altitudes prop pitch makes a big difference. Charlie Tango's pitch is flatter than many of ours. He does a much better job up at those altitudes than we do since he lives there. Back in 2008 he and I were flying over the Grand Canyon at the Page Fly-In at 11.5K. He went full throttle and got his 5500 rpm and I only got 5150 rpm. He walked away from me like I was standing still. My prop at the time was only set for 4.5K. Prop pitch can be everything if setup right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 You need to remember Hamburger's numbers are for the CTLSi with the fuel injected engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C ICEY Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 With all due respect, what the heck are you guys being protected from by prohibiting variable pitch props? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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