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CT_MATT

Marc Ingegno Brake Parts

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For those looking for reasonably priced brake parts for your Marc Ingegno...

 

For pads, Gold Fren 905 is a direct replacement and most likely the OEM.   They come in sets of 2 pads per package. I havent needed to look into it but, I am fairly certain that they also make the disc.

 

http://www.goldfrenusa.com/includes/pdf/goldfren-catalog-aircraft.pdf

 

I found this site to order them from but, you can also order directly from goldfrenusa.  From 1Motoshop, if you refer a friend then you get a 20% discount on your next purchase and they may also get a discount on their first purchase.  Feel free to PM me for a referral.

 

http://www.1motoshop.com/search?controller=search&orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=905&submit_search=

 

These are very reasonably priced (even with international shipping) replacement pins (complete set of 8 with new lock washers).  You will have to email them in order to get full shipping details but, they are very responsive and helpful.  Once your order is placed, payment is via pay pal with the option to use a credit card.  No other hidden fees...  Shipping was via post and took about a week (no tracking).

 

http://www.speedcomfly.com/sito-ecommerce/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_88&products_id=630

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BTW, I have some Marc parts off a 2007 CTSW.  Main wheels, brakes, discs.  Also a master cylinder that leaks and needs a rebuild.  If you need some or all of these parts for your CT, let me know.  I'll make you a deal, they are just sitting in the hangar and I'd rather they got some use.  

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Andy,

 

I'd love the pads, regardless of pad left. I may be experimenting around with riveting pads on my existing original backing plates when the need arises.

 

If the wheels and rotors are in decent shape and are the same as mine, I might be interested in those as spares.

 

Let me know...

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CT_MATT wrote , in part--

"For those looking for reasonably priced brake parts for your Marc Ingegno...

 

For pads, Gold Fren 905 is a direct replacement and most likely the OEM. They come in sets of 2 pads per package. I havent needed to look into it but, I am fairly certain that they also make the disc.

 

http://www.goldfrenu...og-aircraft.pdf

 

I found this site to order them from but, you can also order directly from goldfrenusa. From 1Motoshop, if you refer a friend then you get a 20% discount on your next purchase and they may also get a discount on their first purchase. Feel free to PM me for a referral......."

 

I don't have a CT, but our Tecnam has Marc Igengno brakes, and I just discovered they're priced as if they are hand carved out of gold. $250 for a set from Tecnam USA parts.

 

So was very interested when I stumbled across your post.

 

Wondered a couple of things.... maybe someone could answer:

 

# Matt..... how did you determine these less costly pads were cross referenced as equivalent to the Marc Igengno? Did the vendor claim that?

 

 

 

# by coincidence do the Ingengno brakes on your CTs use he same pads as the brakes on the Tecnam?

Ours is Ingengno part number  010203209 .   At least I think that's a Ignegno part number.

Could be a Tecnam part number.

 

# Has anyone, including CT_MATT, actually purchased , or better yet used, these alternate pads on your CT?  And can confirm that they are at least superficially equivalent (that is, "fit")?

 

 

 

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I have not changed to these new pads yet (still well above the minimum thickness) but have a full set ready to go.  Short of removing and placing them side by side, they appear to be correct.  The same catalog shows not only the 905 pad (with a description "TECNAM Sierra RGP2002 & P96 GOLF" but also the brake disc and it is labeled CT SW...  Most likely they are the OEM but, I have not confirmed.

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Airtime Aviation sells them around $150.

I’m wondering if anyone can confirm if the the Goldfren pads are truly a good fit or OEM?  At $30-40 a pair seems like a bargain. 

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49 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said:

About a year to 18 months.  I’m tough on brakes

How many hours does that translate to?

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Pad wear varies a lot between planes and pilots. In CT's I usually see anywhere from 200 hours (hard on brakes) to 500 hours. This depends a huge amount on how much you use your brakes and how many landings in those hours. Many just fly the 500 and have as few landings as possible. Some practice constantly and they may have a shorter life. Even if you have to replace brake pads because you're hard on brakes pads are $35 to $45 depending on how you buy them.

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6 hours ago, Ben2k9 said:

I’m wondering if anyone can confirm if the the Goldfren pads are truly a good fit or OEM?  At $30-40 a pair seems like a bargain. 

I have 400 hours on the Goldfren pads and don’t plan on changing them anytime soon. CT_MATT & I don’t have problems with the Marc brakes.

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There's nothing wrong with the Marc parts, except the parts prices.  When I had to replace my master cylinder the Marc was something like $300-400 and a Matco was about $60.  That's when I changed to all Matco.  Longer wearing brake pads doesn't really solve that math.  

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For the CTSW the Matcos can really help for alignment, which is a big plus. For the CTLS alignment is not an issue, so unless you have some other issue the Matcos don't make sense.

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Alignment and cost are big for Matco. Most CT's have a camber issue which is easily corrected when you put the brakes / axle on. If you have a toe issue that can also be corrected.  The pressure and fluid pumped volume are almost twice what the Marc MC puts out. The Matco wheels don't change size like a Marc does under different tire pressures. The Matco's don't have heat fade like the Marc's. The Matco's have a float caliper and solid disc (normal) vs the Marc's solid caliper and floating disc which can bind on the 4 screws.  Many have had to pump the Marc's MC before it would engage, Matco's have never had that issue.

 

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The are four downside to matcos that should be put out there, in my opinion:

1. Slightly heavier. Couple pounds I think. For the amount of beef you get for it though, I think this is a very minor negative.

2. Brake pads don't last anywhere near as long. This is due to the riveting rather than the gluing. However, also might be considered a minor negative because marc brake shoes are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive. Matcos, you just buy and replace the liners.

3. Those damn wheels are a pain to fit 6.00-6 tires on. Flight Design opted not to go with the longer axles. The longer axles would have allowed the use of the optional one inch spacer, which would have made this a lot easier. Yes, I know about how to clamp them but it still takes some work. Minor negative.

4. The brake piston design is not the best. Around a quarter to a third of the surface area of the piston is out in the air on one side. I find this leads to the pads not wearing completely square, and application of brakes too hard (easy to do with a matco master cylinder) can cause the piston to tilt and jam. Take it easy on the brakes and keep the liners and rotor maintained, and you won't have this issue. I consider this MAJOR because there really should have been some more thought put into the piston design.

 

I would still recommend matcos to anyone and everyone with a CT because those damn marc ingegnos crack along the wheel beads of the wheel halves and has led to multiple accidents. I can attest to one (my airplane was being rented). I have talked to people that have seen others. In addition, I know of at least three other instances of the wheel beads cracking and us having caught them before any accidents occur. On top of that, these cracks are very sudden. I had an instructor take the airplane for a flight, come back, take another student out to the airplane, and then saw the crack taking up about 1/5th of the wheel circumference. That instructor caught it because he KNOWS to look for these, and now only our CTSW still has marcs (with the smaller tires, which I believe are substantially less stressful on the marc wheels).

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19 minutes ago, Anticept said:

The are four downside to matcos that should be put out there, in my opinion:

1. Slightly heavier. Couple pounds I think. For the amount of beef you get for it though, I think this is a very minor negative.

2. Brake pads don't last anywhere near as long. This is due to the riveting rather than the gluing. However, also might be considered a minor negative because marc brake shoes are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive. Matcos, you just buy and replace the liners.

3. Those damn wheels are a pain to fit 6.00-6 tires on. Flight Design opted not to go with the longer axles. The longer axles would have allowed the use of the optional one inch spacer, which would have made this a lot easier. Yes, I know about how to clamp them but it still takes some work. Minor negative.

4. The brake piston design is not the best. Around a quarter to a third of the surface area of the piston is out in the air on one side. I find this leads to the pads not wearing completely square, and application of brakes too hard (easy to do with a matco master cylinder) can cause the piston to tilt and jam. Take it easy on the brakes and keep the liners and rotor maintained, and you won't have this issue. I consider this MAJOR because there really should have been some more thought put into the piston design.

 

I would still recommend matcos to anyone and everyone with a CT because those damn marc ingegnos crack along the wheel beads of the wheel halves and has led to multiple accidents. I can attest to one (my airplane was being rented). I have talked to people that have seen others. In addition, I know of at least three other instances of the wheel beads cracking and us having caught them before any accidents occur. On top of that, these cracks are very sudden. I had an instructor take the airplane for a flight, come back, take another student out to the airplane, and then saw the crack taking up about 1/5th of the wheel circumference. That instructor caught it because he KNOWS to look for these, and now only our CTSW still has marcs (with the smaller tires, which I believe are substantially less stressful on the marc wheels).

I'm using my original pads on my Marcs after 12 years and 900 hours.  You are scaring me into the upgrade and my brakes require a lot of pumping lately.

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Make sure your rotor hardware is good, and purge air from the lines.

Marc brakes have a spring return. If you have to pump your brakes a lot, your liners, rotor, or both are worn.

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1 hour ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

I'm using my original pads on my Marcs after 12 years and 900 hours.  You are scaring me into the upgrade and my brakes require a lot of pumping lately.

Ditto !!      I thought of changing mine to the Matco many many years ago - however, the Marcs have been just fine - just a little pump here and there but nothing major.   I just replaced the pads a few months ago and regained alot of braking power.    I figure after all these years might as well stick with them.   This cracking of the wheel beads is a concern though.     Could someone please better describe this exact location or a picture of where i should be inspecting for cracks.   ?  

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I don't have an issue putting 6.00-6  6 ply (never 8 ply) tires on the Matco's. I use 4 clamps and squeeze the sides down and it usually isn't an issue. I've changed somewhere between 40-50 sets of Marc's out to Matco's. We have never had an issue with the pads or caliper piston. The only time the piston can get cocked of to one side is if YOU fail to check them occasionally and make sure you do not wear them down past the witness mark. You don't even have to take the wheel pant off. Just lay down to the rear of the tire with a flashlight and you can see the pads.

Pumping on the Marc's come from the two springs on the pad mounting bolts. It pushes the pads away from the disc. This is usually brought on as the pads become thinner and the Marc master cylinder doesn't have the volume in it like the Matco to keep up. So between the Marc pad wear, outward push from the springs and lower MC volume at times you have to pump the brakes to get them to engage.

I'm the first user of the Matco's on my SW back in mid 2007. Everyone back then was having pumping issues and FD was looking for some kind of solution. They were thinking of going with some Russian brake setup, but I got FD and Matco together. George (Matco owner) and I had already got the system setup to modify the MC and axle setup. Back then you had to get an LOA for the swap, but in Jan. 2009 Matco's became a stock item.

The Marc's had been sent to Matco for testing and comparison. Marc's are inferior to Matco's. If they were FD would have never swapped and it was due to all the complaints and lack of Marc factory help.

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7 hours ago, cdarza said:

Ditto !!      I thought of changing mine to the Matco many many years ago - however, the Marcs have been just fine - just a little pump here and there but nothing major.   I just replaced the pads a few months ago and regained alot of braking power.    I figure after all these years might as well stick with them.   This cracking of the wheel beads is a concern though.     Could someone please better describe this exact location or a picture of where i should be inspecting for cracks.   ?  

Marc's have had several documented issues with the wheel's cracking about 1" from the outside edge. I know of at least 7-8 instants and I'm sure there are more I have never heard of. remember the US number of CT that had Marc's are few compared to worldwide.

The Marc wheels are a thin stamped out product that will flex with tire pressure.

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19 minutes ago, Roger Lee said:

Marc's have had several documented issues with the wheel's cracking about 1" from the outside edge. I know of at least 7-8 instants and I'm sure there are more I have never heard of. remember the US number of CT that had Marc's are few compared to worldwide.

The Marc wheels are a thin stamped out product that will flex with tire pressure.

So I should get Matcos and think of it as a wheel upgrade?

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