johnr Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 22 Hi All, some time ago the flaps stopped working on my 2006 Ct. I found it was the relay ( good article from one of the members helped) replaced both relays & all was back to good working order. Some months before I had a bi annual & doing my pretake off checks the instructor noticed the flaps were operating in reverse. I set the flaps at 15 for take off & the flaps moved to a negative setting. I switched everything off, then back on & they reverted to operating normally. I was not able to repeat the error & went flying. I believe that this had just happened & I dont believe that it would be possible to fly & not notice. It could have happened when doing checks in the hangar & then no motor the next time I went to fly. It is now part of my pre take off checks. I had it happen again a few weeks back, switch everything off & when back on it is back to normal. If one coniders carefully the consequences of reversed flap operations 15 degrees would be -6. if 30 degrees was selected the limiting stainless wire would stop the motor. It is reasonable to assume that would result in either a burnt out flap motor or a burnt out relay. My best guess is that my relay was burnt out by the controller board reversing the motor & the limiting SS wire stopping the motor. The satirical part of me is suggesting that it may be an American problem. I have just read of the changes to marriage laws that allow total confusion between AC,DC & positives & negatives. Best regards. John Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Even if there aren't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't know if your post was in jest of how long it took for us to embrace equal marriage rights, or if you actually meant to insult. Either or, it's going to offend one group or other, so I would recommend just removing that completely. Anyways, nothing will be burned out if your flap fuse/breaker is working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I am going to give JohnR a break considering he is from Australia. They have a different view of looking in from the outside. Personally I am more insulted by SportPilot's remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Of course you are. If standing up for equal rights insults you, so be it. In my eyes everyone here is equal. I don't really care if someone is gay, straight, black, white, purple, where they go to church, or who they voted for. I do get tired of you trying to turn things into something they are not. My taking offense to your statement was in no way political in nature. I don't know who you statement was directed at. Maybe it was directed at me maybe it was towards someone else, I don't really care. I know my orientation. I took offense to the fact that you were casting the notion that one or some of the members here are gay. Because of your one sided view of the world you tried to turn it into a Left/Right thing when it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 How is any of this related to a flap issue or flying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 If you had said based on studies 10% of the population is gay, so there might be a gay member on this board who might take offense to your comment it would have been OK, but that is not what you said. I know there are gay pilots in aviation. I know of 2 transgender pilots, one who the FAA treated horribly. That being said, I don't think statistically that the pilot population matches the general population. As an example, according to Gallup 47% of the American population identify as democrats compared to 41% as republicans. Based on 35 years of hanging around airports, fly ins, and aviation forums I would expect there to be a much bigger split in those numbers. I would also expect that split to be even greater among aircraft owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 How is any of this related to a flap issue or flying? It is not, but the OP tried to make a funny based on the Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I would expect aircraft owners to be a high percentage of Republicans. It takes money to own an airplane and a high percentage of Democrats don't have that kind of money. I would suspect the percentages of gays is balanced across all parties. Whatever makes you straight or gay is not related to politics as far as I know. But, why does that matter? Some of us who are interested in equal rights take offence to those type comments and need to speak up. You totally missed my point. In my opinion the pilot population does not match statistically across the board with other groups. I used democrats and republicans, but you can use women and men, black and white, or any divide you want. It just simply doesn't correlate straight across to the pilot population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 You're trying to imply pilots are less gay than other groups. I doubt that. But again, why does that matter? Not at all. Just trying to show that your implication that the numbers go straight across the board for all groups is likely not correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 How is any of this related to a flap issue or flying? Turning the forum into commentary on what happened last week at the Supreme Court is not just off topic, it wades into an issue that is as decisive as those that started the Civil War. A 15 degree flap going negative on final would sure be a bad thing....I guess checking flaps before flight is going to be required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Everyone was reacting to the OP's statement without realizing that he is half way around the world down under. They have a different view of what goes on here in the states. I could be wrong, but I doubt he was trying to stir the hornets nest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 The simplest is no flaps at all. I learned to fly in a airplane without flaps. Sportpilot, you keep posting a link to some blog. I am reluctant to click on links like that. Is the person who has the blog some kind of hero to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Bowden Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Gays,civil rights,civil war, freedom of speech, all because of a turn of phrase or indeed a perceived inappropriate remark? Let's lighten up and remember that johnr comes from a nation that doesn't do PC and they have a healthy attitude to make fun at themselves as well as others. Only recently an Australian government minister told Johnny Depp to "bugger off" when Depp tried to smuggle his dog into the Australia. I love the Aussie humour and bluntness. Now, Flaps,Flaps and more Flaps!!!! When something electrical starts acting up when it didn't before the first thing I,d ask is what was the last thing you did? Answer....replaced flap relays and connections. Is there something not quite right in this area? In case anyone feels offended by anything I've written remember that it's only my opinion and also Ireland was the first country in the world to recently pass equality legislation by popular vote at the polling station by a majority of 2 to 1 and my CT still flies great! Let's keep this forum the best CT resource on the net. Fly safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin2 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Hi Mac, I agree, back to flaps. Wrong forum for politics and rights discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I prefer manual flaps. I never have liked electric flaps and I don't like the pump down flaps on the Mooney. I tend to like manual flaps as well. More and faster control. That said, the electric flaps in my CT seem to work great, and they cycle from -6° to 40° in about 3 seconds, which is fast. So far I've been happy with the flap setup. But I'm with you, uncommanded or reverse commanded flap actuation should be investigated further. If the problem was unable to be duplicated, at least pull and inspect the flap controller for shorts or cracks, since it has caused random-seeming issues on other CTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Manual flaps? Manual trim control? How about no iPad, no cell phone, no radio, no ELT, no mags, no collision and position lights too = all are electrical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Nobody said they didn't want an electrical system. Electric flaps have disadvantages. Manual flaps can be taken in or out *instantly*, literally as fast as you can move the handle. This is a big advantage in a lot of circumstances, versus waiting 3-10 seconds or more with electrics to go from no flaps to full flaps. Also a mechanical linkage is less failure prone than an electric motor and electronic flap controller. Electric flaps have one advantage: convenience. That's not really an operational advantage unless you have T-rex arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Manual flaps? Manual trim control? How about no iPad, no cell phone, no radio, no ELT, no mags, no collision and position lights too = all are electrical... I have over 1,000 hours flying like that, except for the mags. It was some of the most enjoyable flying I have ever done. I am looking forward to doing some more soon. I hope to be teaching my boys how to fly that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Nobody said they didn't want an electrical system. Electric flaps have disadvantages. Manual flaps can be taken in or out *instantly*, literally as fast as you can move the handle. This is a big advantage in a lot of circumstances, versus waiting 3-10 seconds or more with electrics to go from no flaps to full flaps. Also a mechanical linkage is less failure prone than an electric motor and electronic flap controller. Electric flaps have one advantage: convenience. That's not really an operational advantage unless you have T-rex arms. Electric flaps have accuracy, verification (LED Readout) and speed. And an electric elevator trim is by far the most used tool in the cockpit. Other critical electric components, autopilot servos/control...and the glass panels. Given how tedious it is to push the rudder pedals it would be nice to have electric assist on those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Given how tedious it is to push the rudder pedals it would be nice to have electric assist on those too. Perhaps you should try a take-off roll, holding the centerline or at least remaining on the runway in a Lancair that is equivalent to the one you plan to have built? I know a pilot that is limited to planes with light control pressures for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Manual flaps: accuracy: flaps proportional to how much of the handle have you pulled. Couldn't be more accurate. verification: How much of the handle have you pulled? There's your verification. speed: Much faster than electric flaps. Virtually instant. electric elevator trim is not the most used tool in the cockpit for airplanes with manual control. I'd agree that elevator trim is one of the most used tools. BTW, manual trim allows much more subtle changes than electric trim. electric assist rudder pedals? That's why you have rudder trim, if you really need it for the ten minutes it's an issue on climb out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I enjoy flying because I enjoy flying. I like the electronics to some extent, but it wouldn't matter if I didn't have them. It is not my goal to be a programmer of the plane and a passenger on the flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Manual flaps: accuracy: flaps proportional to how much of the handle have you pulled. Couldn't be more accurate. verification: How much of the handle have you pulled? There's your verification. speed: Much faster than electric flaps. Virtually instant. electric elevator trim is not the most used tool in the cockpit for airplanes with manual control. I'd agree that elevator trim is one of the most used tools. BTW, manual trim allows much more subtle changes than electric trim. electric assist rudder pedals? That's why you have rudder trim, if you really need it for the ten minutes it's an issue on climb out. I have electric elevator trim in my plane. There is no way a manual wheel is more accurate than a motor and toggle switch. Unfortunately the FD only provided an electric elevator trim upgrade and left the rudder and aileron trim as manual wheels. Hench they are never touched. I use the autopilot most of the time on level flight for that reason. Mr. Ince brings the perspective of the full pilots flying experience. And I respect that...but I got into flying for the transportation aspect. So automation and computer control is my direction....I wanna go fast in a straighter line than roads allow, and not have to look over my shoulder for a cop. I will be too old when or if they bring full automation to a GA aircraft, but if I was younger and that became available I would buy it in a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 One persistent squawk on my Sky Arrow is the electric pitch trim that periodically goes t/u for no apparent reason. Lots of troubleshooting to no avail so far - intermittent problems can be a b*tch. As I fly along holding constant nose up or nose down pressure, I long for the simplicity of the manual trim all my planes had up until my Cirrus. Similarly, if I had the option I would also go with manual flaps, like one of my Citabrias had. Many have problems with Cirrus flaps, and apparently the CT is not immune - witness this very thread. Manual flaps and manual trim are probably marginally heavier than electric, which is I think one reason we don't see them much, and have their own issues with cable runs and tension and adjustment and the like, but MUCH easier to troubleshoot as a general rule. K.I.S.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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