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I am SO disappointed!


AZAV8OR

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I'm so disappointed in my fellow CTFlier members. I hit my 100th post a few days ago. Did I hear from anyone? No! But alas, I have pretty thick skin and somehow will find the strength to get past it. ;-)

 

Seriously:

 

I've owned my CT for a year now and been member of this forum for about the same period. You may remember my first posts, describing my exodus from the Cirrus-ownership world (I'm still active on the COPA site). Although exponentially smaller in numbers than COPA, I have found the CTFlier world as much fun, engaging and informative. Heck, we even have a similar blowhards-to-gurus ratio here!

 

I just wanted to say thanks to all of you that so quickly welcomed me to the party!

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Kevin, how do you like your CT compared to the Cirrus?

 

The little CT is a wind-up toy compared to the SR22T.  But, they are similar.  Both carbon fiber and glass, albiet the Cirrus glass is the Garmin G1000, older tech than the new Dynons. 

 

But the current SR22T is 3,600 lbs gross almost three times the CT making it far more stable in rough air.  The SR22T has a cruise of 215ktas (versus 120ktas for the CT), ceiling of 28,000 feet (versus 12k for the CT), two radios, FIKI deicing, 3-axis autopilot with auto-descend feature, an IR camera for night work, and access ports on the wheel fairings to get at the tube stem and brake inspections.   The plane also has built-in oxygen, lightning protection and is rated to fly IMC.

 

And of course the SR22T is a five seater with fold-down back seats with the ability to take golf clubs easily.  And has a full 1320 lb useful load.

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Burgers, how many SR22 PIC hours do you have?  That's why I asked Kevin.

 

I have 5 hours in the SR22T... but I didn't give a PIREP, I gave you the comparison between the two products.   If you want to fly the Cirrus, you will have to get a 3rd class medical and complete the private pilots requirements...are you planning to demo the Cirrus?

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I have 5 hours in the SR22T... but I didn't give a PIREP, I gave you the comparison between the two products. If you want to fly the Cirrus, you will have to get a 3rd class medical and complete the private pilots requirements...are you planning to demo the Cirrus?

You may have missed this, but he wasn't talking to you!
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I'm so disappointed in my fellow CTFlier members. I hit my 100th post a few days ago. Did I hear from anyone? No! But alas, I have pretty thick skin and somehow will find the strength to get past it. ;-)

 

Seriously:

 

I've owned my CT for a year now and been member of this forum for about the same period. You may remember my first posts, describing my exodus from the Cirrus-ownership world (I'm still active on the COPA site). Although exponentially smaller in numbers than COPA, I have found the CTFlier world as much fun, engaging and informative. Heck, we even have a similar blowhards-to-gurus ratio here!

 

I just wanted to say thanks to all of you that so quickly welcomed me to the party!

Kevin,

That's a lot of blowhards!

 

Andy (one of your converts)

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Andy,

 

I've got 300+ hours in my SR20 and 25+ PIC time (plus countless hours as IFR safety pilot) in a friend's SR22. Both are simply amazing machines, with the SR20 being the "lesser powered" of the two (200HP vs 310HP). If anyone wants a rundown of SR20 vs SR22, I suggest you visit COPA for some real-life experience sharing.

 

Cirrus vs. CT? That depends on your mission. When I was more of a "go places" aviator, my Cirrus was perfect for me. Although take-off and climb performance falls into the more anemic side of the scale, especially when high and hot, I never felt envious of my SR22-flying brethren. (OK, the take off out of Santa Fe into rising terrain one July afternoon was attention-getting... I sucked up the flaps at 500AGL and the airplane just stopped climbing. Back in with flaps and started breathing again.) The SR20 was nice balance of speed vs fuel burn. I flew exclusively LOP and saw 143KTAS at 8.6-8.9GPH. Over the past few years, however, I found myself doing more local flying (instrument approaches, sightseeing, $100 pancakes, etc.) and decided that the Cirrus was severe aviation overkill for what my missions had evolved into.

 

Enter the CT.

 

Pluses:

-The CT will out climb the SR20, it's off the runway way more quickly and gets down and stopped faster.

-Killer visibility

-120KTAS at 5GPH of MOGAS (vs. 143KTAS @~9GPH of AVGAS in the Cirrus). I shot 3 GPS and 1 RNAV approach Saturday for $14.75!

-Way cheap to keep. My first annual was around $800 (vs. $3500-5000 for the CIrrus), my ADS-B upgrade was $1350 (vs. $7500 in the TSO'd world)

-No need for a tow tug!

-21st Century avionics

 

Minuses:

-Light wing loading (I knew this going in)

-Two seats (although 90% of the time, no biggie)

-Can't fly in IMC (again, no real biggie living in the Southwest)

-Somewhat expensive insurance (they don't know what to do with a commercial/instrument guy that wants to fly an LSA)

-Still having to focus on keeping my feet moving vs. the rudder/aileron interconnect in the Cirrus.

 

I had to sit here a bit to come up with minuses. I simply love my CT and feel great about not having a financial anvil hanging over my head all the time.  (My last 9 months of Cirrus ownership cost me $24,000! That's a new engine and then some in the CT, as if it would ever come to that.) I look at it like a BMW Z4 with wings. If it's ugly out, she's stays in the barn and I find something else to do, although AZ weather doesn't drive me to often in that direction.

 

Overall, I'm very glad that I made the move that I did and would not hesitate to do it again!

:D

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Kevin,

That's a lot of blowhards!

 

Andy (one of your converts)

Hey Andy,

 

Did you find your CT yet? I was talking to Eric about you last week, lamenting the weight gain the late models are suffering. I suggested they impregnate the carbon fiber sandwich with helium...

 

As far as the blowhards, we both likely had a good laugh at the CT vs SR comparison earlier in this particular thread. Right out of the Cirrus marketing materials. It might be fun to see that person attempt to go toe-to-toe with some of the more strong-minded COPAns we both know. I'd pay good money for a ringside seat, in fact!

 

:giggle-3307:

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Thanks for the thoughtful post Kevin. I'm very glad you are enjoying the change in airplanes. I love my CTSW, but have only ever flown LSA so I was curious to see how they compare to more traditional GA airplanes.

Andy,

 

I flew as IFR safety pilot in a friend's SR22 last night. It was the first time in about 30 CT flying hours that I'd flown a Cirrus. I laughed out loud when we opened his hangar, as I could not believe how "HUGE" the Cirrus is! It apparently didn't take long for my brain to decide that the CT is the "correct" size for an airplane. :D

 

In the end analysis, an airplane is an airplane. Yes, they fly differently, but in all cases, the task is to keep the blue above the brown and have fun while you're doing it!

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"And of course the SR22T is a five seater with fold-down back seats with the ability to take golf clubs easily.  And has a full 1320 lb useful load.."

 

I just realized that, with a few mods, the SR22G5 could act as a mother ship to carry a fully loaded CTLS. You know, kind of like the X-15 getting launched off the wing of a B-52 or SpaceShipTwo and WhiteKnightTwo...

 

Hmmm.... perhaps the guys at Virgin Galactic might be interested in a partnership with FD. They could offer rides to 100,000MSL and release the CT for a fun ride back down hill. Imagine it: earn your astronaut wings in an LSA!!!

 

:ive_got_it-1379:

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Kevin, Andy and others:

 

Note I also asked this on COPA.

 

There's an article about aviation insurance in the August 2015 Aviation Consumer (pp. 19-22).  Referencing the sidebar on LSA liability insurance, p. 21, a couple of things are worthy of note:
 
(1) most companies wouldn't quote smooth liability limits;
 
(2) "...in what is arguably the softest insurance market in history, some insurers are requiring that light sport pilots have an FAA medical.  We don't know if that's because insurers do not yet have much loss experience with LSAs and will become more liberal as they do so, or if they know something about medicals and their relation to the risk of pilot incapacitation that the rest of the industry doesn't."  
 
What was your experience with procuring insurance on your CTLSi?  If I cannot get smooth coverage and furthermore in reality have to obtain a class III medical in order to be insured, it's a no-go for me. 
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I have basic coverage. About $950/year for $50k hull. I must admit I'm not even sure what "smooth" means, nor my exact coverage. I really should know that.

 

Have had my insurance through the EAA's Falcon Insurance. They know I don't have a medical and that's never been an issue.

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Kevin, Andy and others:

 

Note I also asked this on COPA.

 

There's an article about aviation insurance in the August 2015 Aviation Consumer (pp. 19-22).  Referencing the sidebar on LSA liability insurance, p. 21, a couple of things are worthy of note:
 
(1) most companies wouldn't quote smooth liability limits;
 
(2) "...in what is arguably the softest insurance market in history, some insurers are requiring that light sport pilots have an FAA medical.  We don't know if that's because insurers do not yet have much loss experience with LSAs and will become more liberal as they do so, or if they know something about medicals and their relation to the risk of pilot incapacitation that the rest of the industry doesn't."  
 
What was your experience with procuring insurance on your CTLSi?  If I cannot get smooth coverage and furthermore in reality have to obtain a class III medical in order to be insured, it's a no-go for me. 

 

I just went through my first renewal with Allianz. I have $135k on the hull, and $1 million smooth. (Ed, "smooth" refers to $1 million in coverage with no sub limits, which are typically $100k/seat. So no matter your max coverage, only $100k would apply to your passenger. Not a tolerable situation for me.) Last year, the best I could get was $2700/year (vs. $1800/yr for similar coverage on my Cirrus). This year my broker worked them down to $2100.

 

I cannot speak to the medical issue, as I am commercial/instrument and, as such, maintain my medical. FIngers crossed that the children in Congress eventually vote to bag the class 3 requirement.

:D

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I just went through my first renewal with Allianz. I have $135k on the hull, and $1 million smooth. (Ed, "smooth" refers to $1 million in coverage with no sub limits, which are typically $100k/seat. So no matter your max coverage, only $100k would apply to your passenger. Not a tolerable situation for me.) Last year, the best I could get was $2700/year (vs. $1800/yr for similar coverage on my Cirrus). This year my broker worked them down to $2100.

 

I cannot speak to the medical issue, as I am commercial/instrument and, as such, maintain my medical. FIngers crossed that the children in Congress eventually vote to bag the class 3 requirement.

:D

 

I think the smooth coverage and hull limits are what's hurting you there.  My insurance has never been more than $1410 per year, it's now about $1225.  That's a $1M policy, but not smooth limits.  And my hull is insured for less (a bit more than half yours).  I have way less hours than you, only about 200 at my last renewal.

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You really need to think twice about who you put in the right seat of your airplane.  If someone gets killed, $100M will not be near enough coverage.  His widow will sue you, or your estate, for millions depending on his income level.

Perhaps a better plan is to take the wife with you then she won't become a widow?

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But you should not use that thought process to justify being under-insured.  And $50 million would definitely protect my personal assets.  My point is, you may not want to do a lot of flying with a 40 year old doctor or lawyer in the right seat unless you're well insured.

 

I agree not to be under-insured.  But my point is that the $50M policy will not protect your personal assets if the lawsuit resulting from your accident is for $100M.  There is always some lawsuit/settlement number that WILL bankrupt you.  

 

I don't look at insurance as a blanket protection for my wealth, because it's not.   It's more a source of funds to cover the *likely* outcomes of liability lawsuits.  

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$100,000 is not enough to cover a likely accident if you kill your passenger.  That's all I'm saying.  

 

Neither is $1M under many circumstances.  I don't feel under-insured with a standard policy, and I try not to fly with people with families likely to want to sue me after an accident.  It's one of the reasons I don't fly anybody in my airplane under 18 years old.

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I googled 'average accidental death settlement' and got a hit that stated:

 

The average settlement/verdict (combining the two) in Maryland traffic accident death claims is $500,000.

 

 

The article points out that the verdict is higher but the settlement is typically much less.

 

Flying accidents may be different -- or not.  YMMV.

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