Cluemeister Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 Hey guys, do you have an opinion on what will happen to the used LSA market in general, and the CTLS/CTSW market in particular, if PBOR2 becomes law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 I think that after a slump(6 - 12 mo) that it will go back to just about where it is. Light sport has a lot more ($) going for it than just no med, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 Perhaps the low end < $60k for CTSW will hold up and the high end, new CTLSi will be hard to justify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 If I'm a typical LSA owner then nothing will change for me. I have no great desire to fly an older used Cessna or Piper etc I do find the refurbished C150/152s AOPA are touting intriguing. Someone else, maybe Sportys, is refurbishing used C172s. I think if this took on it would be a cost effective way for pilots to utilize these types of aircraft. For me, light sport fits the mission pretty well. There isn't any feature of PBOR 2 , whilst a great move forward for GA pilots in the USA, which I will currently take advantage of. Most LSAs are well equipped, low time, nicely performing airplanes, and are typically owned by older pilots. As we age these airplanes will come on the market and be worth looking at. There have been a few LSA owners who have decided their LSA doesn't meet their mission and have sold and moved up to something bigger which will be under the PBOR. Those airplanes have been well priced for what they are and are often real bargains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 How many LSAs are bought by guys that can't pass a 3rd class medical? No one knows, but the number is likely VERY LOW to none. LSA is still the lowest cost way to get into aircraft ownership despite the aging dinosaurs allegedly being sold for $20k to $40k that would be legal under PBOR2 for these guys. We are talking about guys over 60 who are close to or are in full retirement on fixed incomes. This is not the buying public for any aircraft let alone a new Cessna 172 at $400k. Another issue is how long do the old planes have before the airframe is unairworthy? How many Wright flyers are still in the air? Also note, the bill has not passed congress yet, not been signed by Obama yet, and the FAA has a full year after that to change the rules. Guys that have not had a medical in 9 or 10 years are still going to be out of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 I, for one, moved from the Cirrus to the CTLSi with my medical fully in force. Light sport better suited, and arguably safer in my situation, as I really wasn't doing cross-country flying any more. While I didn't make the move for economic reasons (as a matter of fact I still own the Cirrus...temporarily I hope), I was stunned by the cost differential. One thing, also, on PBR2...unlike for light sport (which allows self-regulating on medications), people on medications disapproved by FAA still can't fly under PBR2. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 And, you can't get a repairman's certificate and do your own work on a standard certificated plane. I don't know how many see that as an advantage, but I most definitely do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted December 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 Does the attraction of flying at night, or adding another passenger change the equation? If most of you are private pilots already, aren't you able to fly at night in a light sport anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 At present, the answer is yes, as long as the aircraft meets the requirements, and we meet the requirements of exercising PPL privileges (including a current medical). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Does the attraction of flying at night, or adding another passenger change the equation? If most of you are private pilots already, aren't you able to fly at night in a light sport anyway? Yes, the FD CTLS is equipped for night flying and I fly at night all the time in mine. The FD CTLS can also be equipped to fly both GPS RNAV and VOR/NDB navaids in VFR. The biggest restriction in LSA is just two seats, no IMC (few fly in weather anyway even with IR), around 13k ceilings. But you do get very low fuel costs, low maint. costs, and still can cruise at 120ktas (not much slower than Cessnas and other mundane 3000 lbs aircraft). And you can get the same sophistication in avioncs as most business jets. Or just fly with steams and a tablet. There will remain a market for the low cost LSA market...many private pilots will also still fly STOL and grass/hard runway LSAs if they no longer care about long distance, higher speed xcountry cruising. And they can also just rent a Cessna 182 if the mood strikes. The biggest possible hit is for the old Cessna/Piper iron half a century old down in the $40k price ranges, which overlaps with LSA prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Most of the old Cessna, Piper, and Beech aircraft need total restorations and many are very high times with poor equipement and engines overdue for overhaul. A $40,000 plane will take another 40,000 to get it right (safe). I bought a C310 25 yrs ago and put $100,000 in over time and I am talking parts alone as I can do all heavy maint and avionics, even IFR recertifications. I don' think LSA will suffer much as most are new and a lot cheaper to maintain. A good competent maint shop is $75-$100 per hour. Also having a ballistic chut is nice over hostile terrain because engines do fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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