Cluemeister Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Ok, not as sweet a deal as last time, but still a pretty good deal. People always talk about affordable LSAs, and I think a CTSW fits that category well! My link may show more search results than just the one CTSW, but it is on the list. http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=108251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 It's a 2005, the don't have three axis trim and a few other updates. They usually sell a little cheaper, but that is still a great deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 As an aside, the pricing here (same dealer) seems way high: FLIGHTDESIGN CTLS • $133,900 • LSA FOR SALE • A beautiful almost new 2011 CTLS. After selling over 150 CT airplanes this is one of the best flying planes we have had. This loaded airplane only has just over 545 hours tt. And how is 545 hours and about 5 years old "almost new"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 one should ask about the repair done http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=166162 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted December 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 You guys are great! I'm more than a little embarrassed I posted without doing some research! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Don't they all fly same?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Don't they all fly same?? If you are talking about different year models of CTSW, then I would say they all fly *mostly* the same. The lack of 3-axis trim in the older models would make ensuring that your rigging is correct to be critical. Most CTSWs I know have at least one of the aileron & rudder trim wheels out somewhat to fly right under most conditions. Also, mine is a 2007, and that year FD added an additional pitch spring to "improve control feel"...in reality that spring just serves to make control forces quite heavy. Fast Eddie flew my airplane and remarked on the heavy controls. It's not my favorite aspect of the 2007 models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I can think of 5 different variations of the CTSW and 2 for the CTLS. They all had some effect on the feel of how the airplane flies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 As an aside, the pricing here (same dealer) seems way high: FLIGHTDESIGN CTLS • $133,900 • LSA FOR SALE • A beautiful almost new 2011 CTLS. After selling over 150 CT airplanes this is one of the best flying planes we have had. This loaded airplane only has just over 545 hours tt. And how is 545 hours and about 5 years old "almost new"? That's Airtime Aviation selling them. Dealer in Oklahoma. We've bought two planes from them. First one was in good shape, the other they had only just received and listed, never had a chance to do any inspection on it, and it was a mess. Took a couple months fixing all the little bugs. Flies straight as an arrow now though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 It just seems that at the price advertised - $133,900 - many would think, "For just a little more I could get a new one. With zero time engine and a warranty." That's what I'd be thinking, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 It does make my 2010 with about the same hours look more valuable though. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 "Hope springs eternal, within the human breast." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 They are easily negotiated with. Plus, they stand behind their sales. They gave us parts for free to fix problems on the second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 If you are talking about different year models of CTSW, then I would say they all fly *mostly* the same. The lack of 3-axis trim in the older models would make ensuring that your rigging is correct to be critical. Most CTSWs I know have at least one of the aileron & rudder trim wheels out somewhat to fly right under most conditions. Also, mine is a 2007, and that year FD added an additional pitch spring to "improve control feel"...in reality that spring just serves to make control forces quite heavy. Fast Eddie flew my airplane and remarked on the heavy controls. It's not my favorite aspect of the 2007 models. The SW has a shorter empenage, no rear windows, no fuel injected engines, no header tank, manual trim control, old style fuel switch, old steams, and a weaker main gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Would you stop stroking your own ego? The only valid point there is the weaker main gear, everything else is preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Mine is 2007 also, can u take springs off, I don't mind the controls and how they feel because that is all I know, never flown any other CT's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Not all 2007 SW's had the springs. They were added sometime mid year. I haven't flown a small tail, but of the CTSW's that I have flown I like the heavy rudder centering spring and no elevator spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 On the 2007 models that have the springs, is there an extra/heavier roll spring too or just an extra pitch spring? If there is an extra roll spring, can it be removed as well? I have thought about removing the pitch spring, but I'm hesitant because I'm used to how it flies now, and I want to make sure if I remove it and don't like it I can get the darned thing back on! My controls sure are heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I trained in 2005 and 2007 CTSW's. I own a 2006 and fly my friend's 2008 CTLS frequently. The 2005 could run out of rudder during strong X winds. The 2006 and later CTSW received larger tail/rudder to improve the lack of "rudder authority" found on 2005 and earlier. I need to adjust my landing technique when going from my 2006 CTSW to the 2008 CTLS due to greater sink rate of the 2008 which I attribute to the heavier weight of the CTLS. Always think I'm going to float more during the final stage of landing with the 2008 but end up needing to add more power on the first few landings to arrest the greater tendency to sink. You'd think I'd learn by now to make this adjustment but it doesn't seem to work this way for me. Guess I'll never make a good "Top Gun". :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 That's Airtime Aviation selling them. Dealer in Oklahoma. We've bought two planes from them. First one was in good shape, the other they had only just received and listed, never had a chance to do any inspection on it, and it was a mess. Took a couple months fixing all the little bugs. Flies straight as an arrow now though! I purchased my CTLSi from them last summer. Good experience, both in terms of process negotiating the price and installation of some equipment I added after the sale. I've had a few questions after the sale, and they've been very attentive. They also did my transition training. They were very good to work with, start to finish. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I trained in 2005 and 2007 CTSW's. I own a 2006 and fly my friend's 2008 CTLS frequently. The 2005 could run out of rudder during strong X winds. The 2006 and later CTSW received larger tail/rudder to improve the lack of "rudder authority" found on 2005 and earlier. I need to adjust my landing technique when going from my 2006 CTSW to the 2008 CTLS due to greater sink rate of the 2008 which I attribute to the heavier weight of the CTLS. Always think I'm going to float more during the final stage of landing with the 2008 but end up needing to add more power on the first few landings to arrest the greater tendency to sink. You'd think I'd learn by now to make this adjustment but it doesn't seem to work this way for me. Guess I'll never make a good "Top Gun". :-) Just let the 2008 sink like a rock right to the runway in a "carrier-style" landing. JUST LIKE Top Gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted December 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 one should ask about the repair done http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=166162 No injuries, but damage. From Kathryn's report: The pilot stated that the winds were gusting from 14 to 19 knots when he was cleared to land on runway 17. As the pilot reduced the airspeed, the airplane "lost lift and began to drop rapidly." The pilot added full power; however, the airplane landed hard, bounced, and porpoised. The nosewheel landing gear bent aft resulting in substantial damage to the firewall. The pilot reported no preaccident mechanical malfunctions or failures with the airplane that would have precluded normal operation. Wind at the time of the accident was recorded as 090 degrees at 9 knots, gusting to 14 knots. Is this a weather condition that makes a CTSW harder to land than a CTLS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 No. None of them are hard to land under 25 mph. It's strictly pilot experience. I have and many others have been in landings up to 35+. 14-19 is a walk in the park when done right. Like anything else in life some people just do better in some things than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Bill Ince and I both landed in Texas with winds 24G32. It was not really hard at all with the wind down the runway. If it was a significant crosswind at those numbers I'd find a different runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted December 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Thanks for the information. I hope I didn't offend with my newbie questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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