Anyone installed a 2020 ADS-B system?

[Doug G.]

100H you are wrong. Sandpaper, here is what the AvWeb article said (From FD at Sun & Fun) -

"Peghiny also announced today that Flight Design USA has created its own solution for ADS-B Out installations, and is offering the system to U.S. owners of its aircraft. "We've had many requests for a recommended system from owners of our CTSW and earlier CTLS airplanes," he said. John Hurst, the company's CT avionics expert, designed a complete package from FreeFlight Systems that includes a WAAS GPS, an ADS-B antenna, an external GPS antenna, plus a wiring harness, circuit breaker and antenna cable. The package sells for $2,600 plus installationl"

 

ADS-B out doesn't need to connect to Dynon (or Garmin). FreeFlight says their setup works with legacy transponders. Not sure what FD adds, if anything.

[sandpiper]

100H you are wrong. Sandpaper, here is what the AvWeb article said (From FD at Sun & Fun) -

"Peghiny also announced today that Flight Design USA has created its own solution for ADS-B Out installations, and is offering the system to U.S. owners of its aircraft. "We've had many requests for a recommended system from owners of our CTSW and earlier CTLS airplanes," he said. John Hurst, the company's CT avionics expert, designed a complete package from FreeFlight Systems that includes a WAAS GPS, an ADS-B antenna, an external GPS antenna, plus a wiring harness, circuit breaker and antenna cable. The package sells for $2,600 plus installationl"

 

ADS-B out doesn't need to connect to Dynon (or Garmin). FreeFlight says their setup works with legacy transponders. Not sure what FD adds, if anything.

 

That's what I saw, Doug. Just couldn't remember where I saw it.

 

Thank you.

[FlyingMonkey]

John Hurst, the company's CT avionics expert, designed a complete package from FreeFlight Systems that includes a WAAS GPS, an ADS-B antenna, an external GPS antenna, plus a wiring harness, circuit breaker and antenna cable. The package sells for $2,600 plus installationl"

 

 

I hope that price is right, but I suspect it can't be.  The Freeflight Ranger Lite with WAAS (their least expensive WAAS enabled ADS-B in/out box) is $3695..  Their non-WAAS out only version is $1995.

 

http://www.freeflightsystems.com/products/ads-b/978/rangr-transmitter

 

Maybe FD has worked something out with Freeflight...but a $1000 discount sounds a bit unlikely to me.  I hope I'm wrong!

[gbigs]

Peghiny is cobbling together several solutions for ADS-B.  The one you are interested in is for SW and CT owners who do not have Dynon Skyview and Dynon ADS-B with the Garmin 796 (as has been put into the CTLSi planes). 

 

That is a separate thing from the so called 'new' CTLSI 2020 plane he has also described.  That new plane will be equipped with Dynon Skyview, Dynon ADS-B, Dynon GPS/WAAS, Dynon Mode ES xpndr and the Garmin 796.

 

My CTLSi is one such plane...I have Dynon Skyview, ADS-B from Dynon, Dynon Mode S xpndr and the Garmin.  The Garmin is my GPS/WAAS source and because the Garmin is a portable it is not compliant as an ADS-B out altitude encoding source that would meet the 2020 mandate.  So for me and those like me who want to solve the problem of the GPS/WAAS source we need to upgrade with the Dynon GPS/WAAS module for Skyview.  The rest is already compliant.

[gbigs]

Here is a video of Peghiny talking about the technology from AVWEB:

[BMcCand - N248CT]

I'm thinking this is a http://www.freeflightsystems.com/products/ads-b/978/rangr-transmitter, FDL-978-TXL.  It is $1995 list. add antennas, breaker and cable, $2600 sounds right. Literally reading Tom's statement, this is compliant ADS-B out.  This has WAAS built in.

An in-out RANGR lists for $3695.

 

I elected to use Navworx ADS-600-EXP in/out which is legal in LSA and Experimental. Works fine for me. It doesn't talk to the Foreflight app,

but does talk to Wing-X on the ipad. For the money, $1299 list, you get an in-out box.  Navworx is a much smaller vendor than Freeflight, and it did take a while for me to get my hardware.  I have a D100 EFIS, GPS396 and GTX327.  None of that has WAAS GPS nor 1090-ES out.

 

If one has already purchased ADS-B in , say a Stratus, an out-only box makes sense.

[Tip]

CT_Matt & I stopped by the NavWorx booth at SnF. They said that if you use their ADS600-EXP & transmonspe, you will have ADS-B in & out with traffic display on the 496. $1500 plus antennas and wiring.

[Runtoeat]

Hi Tip. Looks like these offers for 3rd parties interfacing with Garmin just keep improving.  Since I didn't have a 496, I opted for the iFly and SkyGuard.  I've commented before here but not sure that those who are looking for a non Garmin solution saw my post?  I bought the iFly 740 GPS which connects wirelessly to the SkyGuard ADS-B in/out transceiver which is 978/1090 "in" and 978 UAT "out".  It "listens" to my transponder and re-squawks the transponder code out.  This is a "buit-in" ADS-B which meets 2020 certification.  I installed the iFly GPS into my instrument panel and so this is a dedicated GPS which also will run my TruTrak autopilot.  The SkyGuard is installed permanently in my cargo bay.  It has an internal WAAS GPS with an external GPS antenna.  It transmits and receives thru two Delta Pop blade antennas mounted on the CT's belly.  The SkyGuard also can wirelessly connect to iPad and Android tablets.  It connects wirelessly to 3 devices.  I also have AHRS with this.  Total cost was $2,664 which included the iFly 740 GPS with iFly GPS program.  I would recommend that one should check this out when looking for an ADS-B solution for the LSA or experimental airplane.

[sandpiper]

Dick - are you ELSA or did FD do a LOA??

 

I really like my iFly 740. Had a 700, then 720 and now the 740. They just keep getting better.

[Doug G.]

Peghiny is cobbling together several solutions for ADS-B. The one you are interested in is for SW and CT owners who do not have Dynon Skyview and Dynon ADS-B with the Garmin 796 (as has been put into the CTLSi planes).

 

That is a separate thing from the so called 'new' CTLSI 2020 plane he has also described. That new plane will be equipped with Dynon Skyview, Dynon ADS-B, Dynon GPS/WAAS, Dynon Mode ES xpndr and the Garmin 796.

 

My CTLSi is one such plane...I have Dynon Skyview, ADS-B from Dynon, Dynon Mode S xpndr and the Garmin. The Garmin is my GPS/WAAS source and because the Garmin is a portable it is not compliant as an ADS-B out altitude encoding source that would meet the 2020 mandate. So for me and those like me who want to solve the problem of the GPS/WAAS source we need to upgrade with the Dynon GPS/WAAS module for Skyview. The rest is already compliant.

Two issues here. One is FD approval, the second is approval for Dynon version 14 which is also needed.

 

My 2010 CTLS has Skyview, but my Garmin 330 EX would have to be updated to Extended Squitter and I have a 696 instead of the 796. So I am looking at a Dynon solution, a Garmin solution, our with the FreeFlight possibility maybe a combination.

[FlyingMonkey]

CT_Matt & I stopped by the NavWorx booth at SnF. They said that if you use their ADS600-EXP & transmonspe, you will have ADS-B in & out with traffic display on the 496. $1500 plus antennas and wiring.

 

I asked a Garmin rep, and he said that the new Garmin GTX 345 will also display traffic to the 496, but not weather.

 

I'm leaning toward the GTX 345.  It will be more expensive, but there are a few reasons I like it:

 

1)  I know Garmin will still be around to support it in 5-10 years.  Navworx and Freeflight?  Who knows...

 

2)  Transponder replacement with a display.  Less panel hacking, and I get some hardware controls.  Also, I can sell my GTX 327 for about $1000 to offset cost.

 

3)  I use Garmin Pilot, and nobody else is supporting data transfers to GP other than Garmin.  I could use Foreflight, but I really like GP.

 

4)  The GTX 345 has a built-in AHARS that will talk via Bluetooth to Garmin Pilot and give me synthetic vision with attitude references.  This is more a gimmick than a necessity, but it does provide backup attitude reference and possible bacon-saving in low visibility with terrain/obstacles around.  

 

I'm waiting to see what FD comes up with, but to me it will have to be a pretty compelling setup to overcome how good the GTX 245 looks to me.  Again it will be more expensive,  but I usually subscribe to the "buy once, cry once" philosophy.  It's worth spending a little more up front to have more capability and less problems down the road.

 

EDIT:  BTW, I sent email to Arian at FD about ADS-B install approvals, and he basically said, "all we need is an MRA for on the installation, you don't need anything else from us."  So it sounds like FD USA is being pretty relaxed about people installing whatever equipment they think they need for the 2020 mandate.

[gbigs]

Two issues here. One is FD approval, the second is approval for Dynon version 14 which is also needed.

 

My 2010 CTLS has Skyview, but my Garmin 330 EX would have to be updated to Extended Squitter and I have a 696 instead of the 796. So I am looking at a Dynon solution, a Garmin solution, our with the FreeFlight possibility maybe a combination.

 

If you have Skyview why not just add the Dynon ADS-B along with the Dynon mode ES xpndr and GPS/WAAS?  At least then you will be assured of total compatibility.  And all those pieces are already approved by FD.

[Runtoeat]

Dick - are you ELSA or did FD do a LOA??

 

I really like my iFly 740. Had a 700, then 720 and now the 740. They just keep getting better.

Hi John.  I am (still) factory built with my CTSW and got an MRA (no longer called LOA) from FD.  The iFly is really nice and the support from them is top notch.  Got the MRA for installation of the SkyGuard which is installed in my cargo area.  The iFly uses the same Air Gizmo panel dock as the Garmin 796 if one wants to go "built-in" with the iFly 740.  The MRA is mandatory along with permanently mounting the SkyGuard transceiver in order to be 2020 compliant. 

[sandpiper]

Hi John.  I am (still) factory built with my CTSW and got an MRA (no longer called LOA) from FD.  The iFly is really nice and the support from them is top notch.  Got the MRA for installation of the SkyGuard which is installed in my cargo area.  The iFly uses the same Air Gizmo panel dock as the Garmin 796 if one wants to go "built-in" with the iFly 740.  The MRA is mandatory along with permanently mounting the SkyGuard transceiver in order to be 2020 compliant. 

 

Thank you, Dick. Choices, choices. Not like in Henry Fords day when you could have any color you wanted as long as it was black.

[opticsguy]

I just got the 2020 verification email from the FAA for my Skyguard/iFly installation (done by John Wright for about $2500 total).  I now have 3 shark fins for additional spin resistance

 

The box is under the pax seat and the wiring is pretty straightforward.

[FlyingMonkey]

I just got the 2020 verification email from the FAA for my Skyguard/iFly installation (done by John Wright for about $2500 total).  I now have 3 shark fins for additional spin resistance

 

The box is under the pax seat and the wiring is pretty straightforward.

 

Congrats!

[Doug G.]

A verification email?

[Mike Koerner]

Optics guy,

I'm a iFly fan. Can you tell me more about your set-up. Which model SkyGuard? was any other equipment required? The SkyGuard units I see in the ads are portable with internal antenna. Are you saying yours is permanently mounted under the seat with external the antennas for the 2020 compliance?

Mike Koerner

[opticsguy]

It was the TWX with UART  http://adsb.skyguardtwx.com/uat-transmitter/ . Proper antenna placement us critical.  The only other equipment was two antennas on the bottom.  This meets all the requirements of 2020 (fixed antennas and box).

[Mike Koerner]

Thanks.