N456TS Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 This is just an FYI. Brian Carpenter (Rainbow Aviation - Corning, CA) posted a video of a CT he is working on. Both wings are trashed after fuel is leaking/breaking down the composite material. As noted in the video description, the aircraft was primarily operated on auto gasoline. It may have nothing to do with it. The aircraft is just under 10 years old. I hope others can take note and take corrective action. However, it's not clear what is the action to take. I hope it's as simple as the gasoline. That seems to be the theme with composites. YouTube video: https://youtu.be/D18Zruixlqc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I know of at least one other CT that was repaired at the factory due to leaking wing tanks. It involved cutting away the tops of the wings and repairing / re-sealing the tanks. In this case the repairs would be more extensive, but as long as the spars aren't compromised I think it can be fixed. Question...didn't the owner see this developing, before it got to this stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 This is why inspecting the coatings inside the tanks is critical and to repair them when problems are found. It's not a joke, this isn't a "it might happen", it's a "this WILL happen" if you don't get the problem fixed! Also, MrMorden, they traced some of the delamination to the wing spar area too, per video description. It's irreparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 This is why inspecting the coatings inside the tanks is critical and to repair them when problems are found. It's not a joke, this isn't a "it might happen", it's a "this WILL happen" if you don't get the problem fixed! Also, MrMorden, they traced some of the delamination to the wing spar area too, per video description. It's irreparable. Ah, I only read what was in the video, not the description of it, thanks Corey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 They didn't say it was in the spar, so it might still be repairable, but this is going to be a stupidly expensive job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 As noted in the video description, the aircraft was primarily operated on auto gasoline. It may have nothing to do with it. The aircraft is just under 10 years old. YouTube video: https://youtu.be/D18Zruixlqc yeurk I really wonder if it is ethanol related.... December 2006 model.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomH Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Question...didn't the owner see this developing, before it got to this stage? My father and I flew one of the few Gobosh 800XP (LSA) imported into the US. A fuel leak and composite damage ended up totaling the aircraft from an Insurance standpoint. The manufacturer couldn't supply another set of wings. I know the Insurance Co eventually sold it for scrap but it's been repaired as Flight Aware shows the tail number still zipping around the country. We always used gap tape between the airframe and the wing and one day at pre-flight I noticed it stained blue from the 100LL. The flight before ended up being my last in that plane because when we looked deeper the whole left wing was corroded including the spar box. See below. The fuel cell had developed a leak and it was only 4 years old. Shame, was a really cool plane. Incidentally, my 2012 CTLS also had a leak (also discovered via blue gap tape) with stains found around the fuel tank outlet / filter assembly. Each wing tank was sealed and then controlled low pressure compressed air filled the tanks with 2.5 – 3.0 psi. The right wing tank had pressure leaks around the fuel cap and fuel pickup tube. The left wing tank had leaks around the fuel cap but no leaks could be detected at the pickup tube. This happened the first winter after taking delivery in August of 2012. P3 Sports did a great job (not an easy job) and all was well after the repair. My point is, yes... fuel and composites don't mix and it does happen. Stained Tape Left Wing, with pictures of leaks Right Wing, with pictures of leaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Are the tanks sealed form factory with something or is it just composite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Procharger, CTSW tanks are sealed with Kreme Weiss, which is impervious to gasoline and ethanol. That's not to say on any particular airplane that the builders didn't "miss a spot"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2FlyAgain Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 YouTube says the video has been removed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 TomH, it appears that a sealing compound was used which is the black colored sealant in the picture. Was this Proseal or some type of sealant that maybe was tried before the proper sealing was done? What method did P3 use to fix the leaks shown in the pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 The proper sealant is Hylomar and it is blue in color. If it were me I would pull off the fuel bulkhead. get new gaskets from FD and re-seal the fuel bulkhead and the fuel outlet fitting. That should take care of all your worries. This is one fix there is no good shortcut for. http://www.hylomarsealant.com/ Only use a thin film on both surfaces. If you overuse this and glob it on it will get into the fuel system just like silicone and clog things up. Hylomar is FD recommended and it is non-setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Roger, I was wondering what the black sealant that is around the fuel outlet shown in the pictures might be . It looks like Proseal. Hopefully, it isn't black silicone! I then wondered how these areas were sealed when the effective fix was done. Wondering if Hylomar or some sealant like this was used to seal the outlet and inspection plate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomH Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 TomH, it appears that a sealing compound was used which is the black colored sealant in the picture. Was this Proseal or some type of sealant that maybe was tried before the proper sealing was done? What method did P3 use to fix the leaks shown in the pictures? The photos show how the airplane looked from the factory. Not sure what type of sealant that is. I know the repair involved the use of Epoflex and Cab-o-sil and was an FD recommended and documented procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Thanks Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 So does the mechanic in this case suspect an ethanol issue, or simply a failure to adequately seal the tanks at the factory leading to fuel leakage that did damage over time? We've bee assured time and again that ethanol is safe for the CTs...does that still stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I have had to reseal the inspection port. It uses Hylomar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 There have been a number of cases of leaks. Not from ethanol, just needs to be sealed better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 There have been a number of cases of leaks. Not from ethanol, just needs to be sealed better. Is there any way to spot this problem before it becomes many thousands in expense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 just keep an eye out and nose open. Usually it is only a wing removal like the inspection and just re-seal. It should not be expensive. I have re-sealed 7-8 over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 A bird who knows whispered in my ear that since 2004 the tanks are actually sealed with a product called "Epoflex" and not Kreme Weiss. Sorry for giving out wrong information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctspain Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 I am really interested in this case. I had a delamination problem on both wings and had to solve (in fact still working on it) inside product had cracks in some places and filtered fuel that damaged the sandwich. We had to replace that part. One wing is finished and ok after one year but the other one is getting me crazy. I just took it out applied 2 layers of kreem weiss. Anybody know where can I find the video of 1st post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Koerner Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 ctspain, I never saw the video mentioned and I don't know where to find it... but I would be interested in seeing pictures of you problem and knowing what year your plane is and what fuel you use... privately if you'd rather (mkoerner at cox dot net). Mike Koerner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctspain Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Hi, I always use 95octane automotive fuel. In spain we all use it. My plane is 2007 year. I will try to send pictures asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctspain Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Right wing with cracked fuel protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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