Jump to content
adevw

Flight Design insolvency

Recommended Posts

In order to keep the fleet in the air, FD had to assure the US and European Govt agencies that oversee aviation that parts would be available.  Delivery time seems to be variable, depending on part and locations.  US owners are getting parts, as FDUSA has warehoused at least some parts.  I believe AeroJones is now responsible for producing parts.  

 

Rotax is separate for the most part.

 

Tom's post made it sound like both entities were going to help support the existing fleet. He said that they have a big parts order along with 2 airplanes coming from the factory in Kherson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In order to keep the fleet in the air, FD had to assure the US and European Govt agencies that oversee aviation that parts would be available.  Delivery time seems to be variable, depending on part and locations.  US owners are getting parts, as FDUSA has warehoused at least some parts.  I believe AeroJones is now responsible for producing parts.  

 

Rotax is separate for the most part.

My information is that FDUSA, has been getting parts from AeroJones for some time. As a matter of fact, my brothers Aircraft received a modification on the instrument panel, manufactured by Aerojones. This was done in the spring this this year.

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Parts are flowing from aerojones. Turnaround time was reduced from months to a couple of weeks for special orders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Parts are flowing from aerojones. Turnaround time was reduced from months to a couple of weeks for special orders.

 

I hope you are right since I'm still waiting for a special ordered gear leg after 10 weeks. I'm told by FD that they can't really determine exactly where it is even though they told me it would arrive this past Tuesday. Sorry about their troubles, and 10 weeks is reasonable under these difficult circumstances, but to not know where it is or even when it will arrive is just sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They have a big backlog that's being caught up. I'm actually not surprised that everything isn't shipping quickly yet. I'm just speaking from experience on a few specialty bearings that took two weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I could not disagree more.

If I were pondering placing a deposit on a CT, I might come to this forum to see how owners felt about the plane and the purchase process.

 

 

Yes, like me, for example. I appreciate the information, thanks for sharing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few extracts from the semi-annual report of the insolvency administrator.

 

 

Mit einem Abschluss des Verfahrens kann vor 12 Monaten nicht gerechnet werden.

 

Noch nicht abgeschlossen werden konnte der Kaufvertrag  mit  AeroJones Aviation Technologie Ldt. bezüglich der CT bzw. C4,........, so dass der Investor LIFT Holding GmbH/Lindig Gruppe jetzt davon Abstand genommen hat, das schuldnerische Unternehmen  im  Rahmen eines Insolvenzplanes zu übernehmen.

 

AeroJones Aviation Technologie Ldt. hat.....den Kaufpreis für die CT/CTLS-Familie von 2,5 Mio. € auf zurzeit 1,7 Mio. € reduziert,...

Sobald ein unterschriftsreifer Vertrag vorliegt, werde ich diesbezüglich die Einberufung einer weiteren Gläubigerversammlung zum Zwecke der Genehmigung beantragen.

 

Die Produktion in der Tochtergesellschaft in der Ukraine ist wieder aufgenommen worden. Hier werden nach jetzigem Stand noch bis Februar 2017 Flugzeuge der CT-Serie gebaut, die an AeroJones Aviation Technologie Ldt. veräußert werden soll, und sodann eine diesbezügliche Produktion durch die Schuldnerin nicht mehr stattfinden wird. Es handelt sich einerseits hierbei um diejenigen Aufträge, die Kunden, die Anzahlungen geleistet haben, bis 30.09.2016 zu den von mir angebotenen, geänderten Konditionen bestätigt haben. Andererseits werden Flugzeuge aufgrund des Rahmenvertrages mit der Airtime Aviation gefertigt. Insgesamt handelt es sich um 22 Flugzeuge.

 

C4  Diesbezüglich haben sich keine weiteren Ereignisse ergeben. Das Projekt ist nach wie vor bei der EASA auf „on hold" gestellt und soll entsprechend des Beschlusses der Gläubigerversammlung vom 08.08.2016 an AeroJones Aviation Technologie Ldt. veräußert werden. Ein entsprechender Vertrag konnte noch nicht unterzeichnet werden. Auf die obigen Ausführungen wird verwiesen.

 

Bezüglich des Typs CTLS ist insbesondere auszuführen, dass die EASA zunächst die sog. Permit to fly (PTF) bis 30.04.2018 verlängert hat, so dass ein weiterer  Betrieb  der Flugzeuge unproblematisch möglich ist.

 

MC   Der ursprüngliche Vertragspartner zur Veräußerung des MC Projektes ist ausgefallen.

 

Aktuell bestehen fünf Arbeitsverhältnisse ungekündigt fort. Hiervon befindet sich eine Mitarbeiterin noch bis Februar 2017 in Elternzeit.

 

Zwischenzeitlich wurden Forderungen in Höhe....  von 12.934.880,24 € zur Insolvenztabelle angemeldet....

 

Derzeit  verwalte  ich auf den Verfahrensanderkonten eine Masse in Höhe von insgesamt 31.074,88 €.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I could not disagree more.

If I were pondering placing a deposit on a CT, I might come to this forum to see how owners felt about the plane and the purchase process.

 

 

Yes, like me, for example. I appreciate the information, thanks for sharing it.

 

FastEddie never flew or owned a CT, btw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And through the magic of google translate:

 

The conclusion of the procedure can not be expected 12 months ago.

 
The purchase agreement with AeroJones Aviation Technologie Ldt could not be concluded yet. With regard to CT and / or C4, ........ so that the investor LIFT Holding GmbH / Lindig Group has now refrained from taking over the debtor company within the framework of an insolvency plan.
 
AeroJones Aviation Technology Ldt. Has reduced the purchase price for the CT / CTLS family from 2.5 million € to currently 1.7 million €, ...
As soon as a signing contract has been signed, I will request the convening of a further creditor meeting for the purpose of approval.
 
Production in the subsidiary in Ukraine has been resumed. According to the present state, CT-series airplanes are being built up to February 2017, which are based on AeroJones Aviation Technologie Ldt. And then production by the debtor will no longer take place. These are, on the one hand, the orders which customers who have made advance payments have confirmed until 30 September 2016 on the changed terms offered by me. On the other hand, aircraft are manufactured with the Airtime Aviation as a result of the framework contract. In total, there are 22 aircraft.
 
C4 No other events have occurred. The project is still on "on hold" at EASA and is to be sold to AeroJones Aviation Technologie Ldt according to the decision of the creditors' meeting of August 8, 2016. A corresponding agreement has not yet been signed .
 
Regarding the type CTLS, it should be stated in particular that the EASA has initially extended the so-called Permit to fly (PTF) to 30.04.2018, so that further operation of the aircraft is unproblematically possible.
 
MC The original contract partner for the sale of the MC project has failed.
 
Currently, five working conditions remain unchanged. An employee is still in parental leave until February 2017.
 
In the meantime, claims in amount .... from 12.934.880,24 € to the insolvency table ....
 
At present, I am managing a total of € 31,074.88 on the procedural exchange accounts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

In December 2016 AeroJones reduced their “binding” offer for the CT series from €2,5 Mio. to €1,7 Mio. (that’s what Aerojones understands as binding). The offer for the C4 seems to be unchanged €0,5 Mio. Now in 2017 Aerojones is pushing to sign now, but propose a payment guarantee 3 month later, as they want to apply for subsidies in China. Only after three month period the receiver would be allowed to cancel the contract. In addition, the current Aerojones offer requires that Flight Design is to immediately stop selling CT’s and parts and has to stop production by end of February. 

 

This seems to be the same behaviour as all the times before, which most likely will be followed by another reduced offer in 3 months time, when Flight Design had already stopped all CT operations. 

 

With this game of AeroJones, Mr. Lindig of Lift Holding was blocked to do an Insolvency plan with the receiver which was to occur only after the Aerojones asset deal. As Lift Holding doesn’t want to lose time and wants to continue the Flight Design project, they have since the end of November negotiated with the receiver, Mr. Rebholz a simple asset purchase plan. 

 

The receiver showed parts of this typical Aerojones behaviour in his yearly report. By doing this, three new / old interested groups showed up immediately and one of them seems to move very fast, with a much better proposal which could satisfy the interests of all creditors of Flight Design. We all can cross our fingers that Mr. Rebholz will be successful with this new offer.

 

Additionally, it is correct that around €12,5 has been submitted to the receiver, but the receiver has only approved €8,5 as valid creditor claims so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 
In December 2016 AeroJones reduced their “binding” offer for the CT series from €2,5 Mio. to €1,7 Mio. (that’s what Aerojones understands as binding). The offer for the C4 seems to be unchanged €0,5 Mio. Now in 2017 Aerojones is pushing to sign now, but propose a payment guarantee 3 month later, as they want to apply for subsidies in China. Only after three month period the receiver would be allowed to cancel the contract. In addition, the current Aerojones offer requires that Flight Design is to immediately stop selling CT’s and parts and has to stop production by end of February. 
 
This seems to be the same behaviour as all the times before, which most likely will be followed by another reduced offer in 3 months time, when Flight Design had already stopped all CT operations. 
 
With this game of AeroJones, Mr. Lindig of Lift Holding was blocked to do an Insolvency plan with the receiver which was to occur only after the Aerojones asset deal. As Lift Holding doesn’t want to lose time and wants to continue the Flight Design project, they have since the end of November negotiated with the receiver, Mr. Rebholz a simple asset purchase plan. 
 
The receiver showed parts of this typical Aerojones behaviour in his yearly report. By doing this, three new / old interested groups showed up immediately and one of them seems to move very fast, with a much better proposal which could satisfy the interests of all creditors of Flight Design. We all can cross our fingers that Mr. Rebholz will be successful with this new offer.
 
Additionally, it is correct that around €12,5 has been submitted to the receiver, but the receiver has only approved €8,5 as valid creditor claims so far.

 

how familiar voice of this article is! I can smell someone still playing in. The content is interesting, partly true. I just want to say please be careful with someone who had tried every effort to take others' money and could not make his words.  I do believe the normal business relies on decent behaviour, and believe the public is clever. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 
In December 2016 AeroJones reduced their “binding” offer for the CT series from €2,5 Mio. to €1,7 Mio. (that’s what Aerojones understands as binding). The offer for the C4 seems to be unchanged €0,5 Mio. Now in 2017 Aerojones is pushing to sign now, but propose a payment guarantee 3 month later, as they want to apply for subsidies in China. Only after three month period the receiver would be allowed to cancel the contract. In addition, the current Aerojones offer requires that Flight Design is to immediately stop selling CT’s and parts and has to stop production by end of February. 
 
This seems to be the same behaviour as all the times before, which most likely will be followed by another reduced offer in 3 months time, when Flight Design had already stopped all CT operations. 
 
With this game of AeroJones, Mr. Lindig of Lift Holding was blocked to do an Insolvency plan with the receiver which was to occur only after the Aerojones asset deal. As Lift Holding doesn’t want to lose time and wants to continue the Flight Design project, they have since the end of November negotiated with the receiver, Mr. Rebholz a simple asset purchase plan. 
 
The receiver showed parts of this typical Aerojones behaviour in his yearly report. By doing this, three new / old interested groups showed up immediately and one of them seems to move very fast, with a much better proposal which could satisfy the interests of all creditors of Flight Design. We all can cross our fingers that Mr. Rebholz will be successful with this new offer.
 
Additionally, it is correct that around €12,5 has been submitted to the receiver, but the receiver has only approved €8,5 as valid creditor claims so far.

 

 

Basically,  all information related to the purchase agreement is protected by non disclosure agreement signed between both parties from the beginning of the process, now the amount of detail information provided here. can i assume you are a member of FD and trying to spread falsified or biased information to the public since details as such is confidential, is it not?  

 

Why would AeroJones reduce their purchase price? when something is worth it's value there is no reason for a price reduction right?

 

From the creditors meeting held at 8th Aug 2016 everyone attend the meeting know LIFT holding was going to do a insolvency plan and this should be done in parallel with AeroJones's purchase agreement. Changing from insolvency plan to asset purchase plan should be Lift holding's strategic decision not AeroJones's fault since the two company have no relationship and no conflicts of interest in this case.  

 

From what I've heard, AeroJones has already show proof of finance showing they have enough of fund and need no external source of finance to complete the deal.  and is waiting for the bankruptcy trustee to countersign the contract in order to proceed the transfer and payback to the creditors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting, two people who have no previous posts here are purporting to have inside information. What is the purpose? It certainly is not to help owners. It seems to be trying to influence the process somehow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As a creditor, former CT buyer and now CT owner my interests are like

following: 

 

As creditor, I want that the receiver gets the most money out of the assets

of Flight Design and I was for the AeroJones and Lindig offers. As AeroJones

postponed for 5 months and now offers less with no security, but already

requires all rights, I am happy when another bidder bids more in a more

straight forward way. 

 

As a former CT buyer, I want that the buyers which paid deposits can get

their airplanes as cheap as possible, what the receiver has offered to

deliver, but this possibility to reduce their damage was stopped by

Aerojones as contract requirements in September. That only damages the

people having paid for their airplanes without giving any benefit to

AeroJones.

 

As a CT Ultralight owner, I want to get service and spare parts. I heard

that the receiver with Flight Design has to stop supply and support

immediately by end of February, otherwise he should pay a big penalty. How

AeroJones will support Ultralights they never built? Why the people with

knowledge are no more allowed to support me? 

 

Mr. Tai is right, customers are clever, but better for all of us would be a

good deal which is in the interest of all parties. That would also help

AeroJones in future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All this shows how difficult it is to do business with Chinese / Taiwanese company's here in Australia many people from big Iron ore company's to farmers have to be very careful when doing business with China a contract in China is only a basis for further negotiation, generally to force the price further down as shown here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First I would like to say how good it is to hear that there has been a delivery of a 2017 CTLSi from Germany.

 

But I would like to say it also makes me extremely upset, as I am still waiting for my 2013 CTLSi Jubilee model that has been fully paid for these past 4 years !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gryphon, this is not right.  I feel your pain when I hear about you and others in your situation still waiting for delivery 4 years after pre-paying full price while planes are being delivered to the U.S. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First I would like to say how good it is to hear that there has been a delivery of a 2017 CTLSi from Germany.

 

But I would like to say it also makes me extremely upset, as I am still waiting for my 2013 CTLSi Jubilee model that has been fully paid for these past 4 years !!!

 

It is hard to know all the details, but these airplanes may have also been paid in full since then as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted on Flight Design Germany's website from a couple of days ago..

http://flightdesign.com/wordpress/?p=5210

 

Planes and Parts Are Shipping!
February 17, 2017 By Flight Design
 

Flight Design GmbH is pleased to report that CTLS, CTLSi and CTSL deliveries are happening from their factory in Kherson, Ukraine.  “We are very pleased to see the first new 2017 planes being shipped to Germany for test flights before being delivered to owners in Europe and the world” said Flight Design COO Daniel Gunther. “The production team at the factory are to be thanked for their support over our recent tough times and also for the quality for new planes as they look great.” Spare parts shipments, which were back ordered are being cleared and a stock of the most important items are also being built up in anticipation of the upcoming flying and training season in the northern hemisphere.  Engineering support, which is a big part of being a responsible manufacturer in aviation, have continued nonstop during the last year.

 

 

My father in law has put down deposit for a CTLS a year ago, understanding that Aero Jones where building plane, now we hear this news??

So confusing. I feel for all those customers that have waited so long to get hold of their aircraft!

 

The most frustrating thing, these planes are so dammed good, you hate having to wait so long!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×