2012 CTLS for sale: I will pay $250 to anyone who refers the person that purchases 113WT!

[AZAV8OR]

I will pay $250 to anyone who refers the person that purchases 113WT!

 

Please see my ad on Barnstormers:

http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=1108476&ReturnURL=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjQ6ImN0bHMiO3M6MTE6IkRlc2NyaXB0aW9uIjtzOjA6IiI7czo4OiJIZWFkbGluZSI7czowOiIiO3M6MTA6IlBhcnROdW1iZXIiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjEyOiJNYW51ZmFjdHVyZXIiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6Ik1vZGVsIjtzOjA6IiI7czo3OiJDb21wYW55IjtzOjA6IiI7czo4OiJMYXN0TmFtZSI7czowOiIiO3M6OToiRmlyc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo3OiJDb3VudHJ5IjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJTdGF0ZSI7czowOiIiO3M6NDoiQ2l0eSI7czowOiIiO3M6MzoiWmlwIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJQaG9uZSI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiRW1haWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjEyOiJDb21wYW55RW1haWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkNhdGVnb3J5IjtzOjE6IiAiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNaW4iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IlByaWNlTWF4IjtzOjA6IiI7czo3OiJOb1ByaWNlIjtzOjE6IjEiO30%253D

 

"Although a 2012 model, this immaculate aircraft has only 175 hours and looks virtually new. 504# useful load - way better than a CTLSi. Dual Dynon 10" Skyviews, Garmin 796 GPS,  TruTrak Digiflight II Autopilot, Garmin SL-40 com, Dynon Mode S Transponder with traffic and ADS-B in and out, PS Engineering Intercom. Custom carpet mats, sun shades, battery charger, prop covers, and more! Why buy new when you can have this gorgeous airplane for $30,000 less! $138,500."

[Anticept]

Now why are you selling out?

[FlyingMonkey]

Straight trade for my 2007 CTSW.  You know you want to, think of the 575lb useful load...

 

Good luck with the sale if you don't take me up on my offer.    

[AZAV8OR]

Even worse, I'm going back to the dark side (mainstream GA)!

 

My primary reason is pretty straightforward: I  have not "become one" with the CT. I've been flying for 25 years and every airplane I owned eventually felt like a glove that I put on to fly. After close to 100 hours, I just do not feel that same "oneness" with 3WT. I did a bunch of soul searching over the past few months and have finally been able to verbalize why I haven't been as lit up about aviating as I am usually. Wrong airplane!

 

The CT is amazing machine, for sure. I'm glad to have experienced the LSA world in such a craft. Now, I can only hope that experience doesn't come with too much of a price tag (it depends in what I get for 3WT)!

 

 

[AZAV8OR]

Straight trade for my 2007 CTSW.  You know you want to, think of the 575lb useful load...

 

Good luck with the sale if you don't take me up on my offer.  

Andy,

 

Please be sure the hallucinogens are out of your system before you fly again!

[FlyingMonkey]

Sorry to hear it Kevin.  Have you given it enough time for the "oneness" to kick in?  I think I had about 150-200hrs on mine before I really felt what you're describing.  The CT series is not as easy to master or feel the Zen as some others.  

[FlyingMonkey]

Andy,

 

Please be sure the hallucinogens are out of your system before you fly again!

 

 

[AZAV8OR]

Sorry to hear it Kevin.  Have you given it enough time for the "oneness" to kick in?  I think I had about 150-200hrs on mine before I really felt what you're describing.  The CT series is not as easy to master or feel the Zen as some others.  

I really have. In getting used to a new airplane, I bash myself with commercial maneuvers until my hands, feet and eyes are all in sync. In the past, I've owned a Cherokee, a Mooney, an Archer and a Cirrus. In each of those cases, that "oneness" came pretty quickly for me.

[SportFlyer1]

As a new owner of a 2010 CTLS, I can sympathize with your plight.  After about 25 hours of transitioning from Evektor to CT, I have finally gotten past the open warfare phase.  We are having a truce right now where the plane does most of the things I want it to.  There was a flight the other day that the plane didn't actively try to kill me and I found that I had an almost warm feeling for it... doubtless this will pass.

 

I guess the main things are: the switch from low wing to high, the strange and highly effective flap settings, and last but not least its tendency for the tail to try to pass the nose on decelerations.  Still, I wish I had the do re mi to buy your lovely plane ... sigh.

[FlyingMonkey]

I really have. In getting used to a new airplane, I bash myself with commercial maneuvers until my hands, feet and eyes are all in sync. In the past, I've owned a Cherokee, a Mooney, an Archer and a Cirrus. In each of those cases, that "oneness" came pretty quickly for me.

 

Well, not every plane matches every owner.  Find what suits you!

[AZAV8OR]

As a new owner of a 2010 CTLS, I can sympathize with your plight.  After about 25 hours of transitioning from Evektor to CT, I have finally gotten past the open warfare phase.  We are having a truce right now where the plane does most of the things I want it to.  There was a flight the other day that the plane didn't actively try to kill me and I found that I had an almost warm feeling for it... doubtless this will pass.

 

I guess the main things are: the switch from low wing to high, the strange and highly effective flap settings, and last but not least its tendency for the tail to try to pass the nose on decelerations.  Still, I wish I had the do re mi to buy your lovely plane ... sigh.

Tom,

 

For me, it's more hands/feet coordination. I swear I've spent more time looking at the ball in the CT than I did in all my other airplanes... combined!

[AZAV8OR]

Well, not every plane matches every owner.  Find what suits you!

So true!

[FlyingMonkey]

As a new owner of a 2010 CTLS, I can sympathize with your plight.  After about 25 hours of transitioning from Evektor to CT, I have finally gotten past the open warfare phase.  We are having a truce right now where the plane does most of the things I want it to.  There was a flight the other day that the plane didn't actively try to kill me and I found that I had an almost warm feeling for it... doubtless this will pass.

 

I guess the main things are: the switch from low wing to high, the strange and highly effective flap settings, and last but not least its tendency for the tail to try to pass the nose on decelerations.  Still, I wish I had the do re mi to buy your lovely plane ... sigh.

 

Tom, I love your descriptions, it reminds me of my experiences learning on the CTSW (which I'm still doing, BTW).  My "open warfare" phase lasted quite a while, the first year or a little more.  After that It seemed to be mostly an ally, but only in the sense that Hitler and Stalin were once allies.  It would randomly pull out a knife and make a lunge to kill me, then laugh and say "just kidding!" at last moment and let me live.  This usually happened on landing.

 

I now am at the point of feeling very confident about my relationship with the CT, but residual PTSD always keeps my looking for the knife to come out.      

[FlyingMonkey]

Tom,

 

For me, it's more hands/feet coordination. I swear I've spent more time looking at the ball in the CT than I did in all my other airplanes... combined!

 

The CT is so short coupled, that if you chase the ball around you'll go insane.  I make sure my turns are coordinated, and that I'm generally straight, but (at least in the CTSW) that ball is absolutely GOING to bounce around a bit.  I don't worry too much about it, but I wish it were more stable.

[Anticept]

As a small suggestion for topic poster, if you feel like putting up with it, try finding an experienced CT instructor. One thing I've noticed with some people going from traditional GA, sometimes they're bringing old habits from heavier airplanes. If you're staring at your ball a lot, you just might have one of those habits :-)

[Ed Cesnalis]

I am one with my CT it cam instantly and naturally.

 

I might prefer to be one with a 200hp Globe Swift though

 

 

 

[Tom Baker]

Tom,

 

For me, it's more hands/feet coordination. I swear I've spent more time looking at the ball in the CT than I did in all my other airplanes... combined!

 

Of the airplanes you mentioned yo had flown on the past the CT is a completely different animal when it comes to rudder use. I have flown all the other airplanes except the Cirrus, and can understand where you are coming from. I have quite a bit of time in airplanes that require rudder use because of adverse yaw caused by the ailerons. I have also given quite a bit of instruction in such aircraft, including the CT. To truly be comfortable in the airplane you need to be able to feel the yaw instead of needing to look at the ball. You need to feel things like the changing pressure on the side of your leg that is leaning against the tunnel, or your shoulder against the door. Until you start to feel things like that you will not be truly comfortable.

 

One quick story, and then I'm done preaching. I was flying with a young man in a Champ doing take offs and landings. He was chasing the ball all over the place. Finally he ask me to do a circuit. When I got done he ask if I had a switch for the ball. He thought I had turned it off when I was flying. Sitting in the back seat of the Champ I could not even see the ball, but I could feel the airplane.

[SportFlyer1]

Wise words.  I have chased that ball through 3 counties and finally I am coming to the same conclusion, its more about feel than sight.  You know that plane is going to yaw, so give the rudder a little squeeze as soon as you think of turning.  If you would like someone to hate, try this guy.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc2FYTBvMTE

[Tom Baker]

You can also see the yaw looking out the front of the airplane, instead of trying to watch the ball. To many pilots don't know what it should look like out the windshield when starting a turn.

[Anticept]

I myself just stopped caring. Once I have the ball approximately centered, I just enjoy the flight, checking it once in a while as part of the instrument scan, but not worrying too much if it's a little off center. I'm not going to be able to outfight her, she'll win every time :-P

 

Turns close to the ground, like when landing, then I'm more conscious about it.

[AZAV8OR]

Of the airplanes you mentioned yo had flown on the past the CT is a completely different animal when it comes to rudder use. I have flown all the other airplanes except the Cirrus, and can understand where you are coming from. I have quite a bit of time in airplanes that require rudder use because of adverse yaw caused by the ailerons. I have also given quite a bit of instruction in such aircraft, including the CT. To truly be comfortable in the airplane you need to be able to feel the yaw instead of needing to look at the ball. You need to feel things like the changing pressure on the side of your leg that is leaning against the tunnel, or your shoulder against the door. Until you start to feel things like that you will not be truly comfortable.

 

One quick story, and then I'm done preaching. I was flying with a young man in a Champ doing take offs and landings. He was chasing the ball all over the place. Finally he ask me to do a circuit. When I got done he ask if I had a switch for the ball. He thought I had turned it off when I was flying. Sitting in the back seat of the Champ I could not even see the ball, but I could feel the airplane.

While I don't want the ball issue be perceived as my only one, my being unable to feel the airplane through my ass is a surprise. In my other airplanes, I could close my eyes, ask my buddy to fly and be able to tell him what he was doing with his feet. The CT sends me no signals along that line!

[AZAV8OR]

You can also see the yaw looking out the front of the airplane, instead of trying to watch the ball. To many pilots don't know what it should look like out the windshield when starting a turn.

That is one of my issues. I look outside, reference inside. I could never seem to get the picture of coordinated flight while maneuvering.

[Duane Jefts]

Kevin - When I saw you Sunday you didn't mention the sale.  Must have been a spur of the moment thing.  Sorry to hear your moving on.

 

In the meantime if you want to fly together sometime, I may be able to help you adjust to the CT.  In any case come on down to Tucson.  We have good food here.

[Anticept]

That is one of my issues. I look outside, reference inside. I could never seem to get the picture of coordinated flight while maneuvering.

 

Well as said, many of us are offering to go fly with you a bit to see if there's anything we can help with!

 

In my opinion, part of the charm of a CT is the lower stability vs a heavier airplane. I actually like that about them. Try giving it a go where you worry less about hitting everything on the money, and just make corrections for excessive deviations. Ride the flow instead of fighting it, and see if that puts a bit more joy into it.

[gbigs]

Now that I have experience flying the Cirrus SR22T and of course hundreds of hours in the CT I can offer this bit of comparison in regard to flight characteristics.

 

The FD is a very light, responsive plane that requires 'seat flying' and strong/steady stick/rudder skills.  If you have an autopilot use it as often as necessary to reduce load since there is a lot of work required to manually fly the plane over a lengthy period of time.  When doing pattern work the plane will climb quickly and take a little time to get around the course then become a handful on base and final (but can be glided to the runway on idle from mid base).  Once over the numbers (after dealing with the slightest head/xwind) the sight picture is drastically different and the flare seemingly too high.  But the CT has steerable nose gear so putting the nose down at any point after touching the mains will work.  The hand brake takes some getting used to also but works well.

 

The Cirrus is a HEAVY plane by comparison.  The side yoke is like pulling on a rope attached to a car.  The plane must be flown mainly with the electric witches hat trim on the top of the yoke....the autopilot in the CIrrus is astoundingly functional and there is an integrated YD (yaw damper) that takes care of the ball.  The Cirrus flys far faster in the pattern (90 KIAS) and over the numbers (85 KIAS).  And you must use power all the way to touchdown.  But the flare is far less drastic and once the mains touch the nose wheel has to be held off because it's castoring and will shudder if put down too soon.  Also the brakes are on the rudder peddles so steering when taxiing and runout are done with the feet.  Also, the Cirrus is virtually impervious to xwind.