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Ed Cesnalis

Flaps to aid climbing - truth or fiction

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Okay everyone time to pull back.

You always have the option of not responding.

 

Just when we hoping someone would have an epiphany!

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Okay everyone time to pull back.

You always have the option of not responding.

Are you suggesting that false and misleading statements be allowed to stand uncontested?

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The reason for the negative flaps is because of the shape of the airfoil...

 

The reason for the reflex flaps is one more innovative concept leading to an interesting evolutionary design that worked well in Europe.  The design accomplished a wide speed range on a small power plant as well as a safe and roomy cockpit and economy to boot.

 

The concepts that were utilized were:

  • Carbon fiber leading to light weight, low drag and safe and roomy egg cockpit.
  • Flaperons to aid in low speed flight for Europe's short grass strips
  • Reflex flaps to increase speed range
  • Rotax power plant for increased performance through better power to weight ratio.

These concepts combined were adequately interesting to submit as a thesis to the university and were baked in the original 'Pegasus' concept.  I think.

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"Are you suggesting that false and misleading statements be allowed to stand uncontested?"

 

No we expect a debate. There are certainly some rights, some wrongs and some personal choices the way we do things and you can debate until your dying breath.

 

What we don't expect is personally targeting a member with pointed comments.

 

Like this: "Kinda like when you admitted messing with the guys on COPA. 

I guess we'll just keep correcting your false assertions so that no one is misled, but it sure is getting tiresome. "

 

Which has no value about flaps or the immediate discussion.

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The reason for the reflex flaps is one more innovative concept leading to an interesting evolutionary design that worked well in Europe.  The design accomplished a wide speed range on a small power plant as well as a safe and roomy cockpit and economy to boot.

 

The concepts that were utilized were:

 

  • Carbon fiber leading to light weight, low drag and safe and roomy egg cockpit.
  • Flaperons to aid in low speed flight for Europe's short grass strips
  • Reflex flaps to increase speed range
  • Rotax power plant for increased performance through better power to weight ratio.
These concepts combined were adequately interesting to submit as a thesis to the university and were baked in the original 'Pegasus' concept.  I think.

That may all be true, what I stated came directly from one of the Flight Design Engineers.

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That may all be true, what I stated came directly from one of the Flight Design Engineers.

 

I assume the pre-CTSW models like the CT2K or the earlier Pegasus had flaperons as well.  Did they?  If they were there from the beginning I would say the reason was an interesting thesis or at least intersting design.  (forgot to mention ballistic chute in bullets above)  If it was added at some stage, like when they shortened the wings then I would be more open the the FDE.

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I believe Tom's "trailing edge load" reasoning.  Otherwise there would be no reason for a 0° flap speed limit.  The reflex flaps buy some drag reduction and will improve speed, but there is no reason to limit the speed at 0° unless there is *some* structural concern.  

 

The CT will certainly go above 100kt at 0° flaps, I found that out when I thought I was at -6° and was actually at 0° for a bit at 106kt or so.  The airplane seemed to be slower than I was used to for a given rpm, but not hugely so.  Once I landed I grabbed my A&P and we both looked over the airplane carefully.   He pronounced no harm done, but I could see doing that for long periods as putting more stress on the trailing edge of the wing.

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Can we have a vote?

How many of you say that CTs have flaperons?

I vote yes.

 

No matter how the vote ends, it won't alter the fact that all CTs have flaperons.  Facts cannot be altered by consensus.

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Tolerance of nonsense in CT Flier is a reason why this site has been abandoned by many people.  

 

The need to insert "climate change" into topics where it has no business is one recent example, of course, and the constant tug of war with one or more posters about the factual accuracy of comments about Flight Design (and other) aircraft is another (and more common example).  

 

Sad that Admin has been so unwilling to maintain order and seems to think that stepping into hostile discussions with the usual "I'm gonna pull this car over to the side the road if you children don't behave" warning is sufficient. History shows us that it isn't.  

 

"Tiresome" is correct.  And the value of CT Flier has suffered as a result.

 

Just my $0.02.  Worth everything you paid for it.

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Fred,

 

We now live in a world where facts are altered by consensus. There is no better example of this than climate change.  I'm sorry that you find that offensive. I'm a human being that is used to freedom of speech.

 

It wasn't a political statement, both sides focus on the concurrences, one uses it as proof the other side says it doesn't exist and that consensus isn't science.

 

Facts by consensus is a new technique (at least in my world) and I made a simple obvious observation.  You can complain if you want.  I won't go to the extent of never even mentioning such forbidden words or phrases because I am an adult.

 

Funny how the left wants absolute control over the right.  CTflier certainly isn't a free speech zone, why must it  be pushed all the way to a 'safe zone'?  Are we all snowflakes now?

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Let's not eat our own young here.  I agree with what FredG said.

 

I have the highest post count on this site aside from Roger.  I post a lot and and ask a lot of questions; in my brief 3 years or so as a CT owner, I have been voracious in my desire to learn all I can about these airplanes and how to fly, maintain, and manage them.

 

However, I have often considered leaving this site because of ONE user who frankly posts bullshit in every thread and turns this site into a radioactive waste dump for unproductive arguments.  I know several experienced, highly knowledgeable pilots who will no longer post here as a result, and I'm close to joining them.  

 

I don't know whose brother-in-law "he who shall not be named" is, or what compromising pictures he possesses, but *something* weird is going on here when one idiot who adds nothing but division to any discussion is retained and seemingly protected, while the scores of honest pilots trying to get information and have enjoyable discussions about aircraft and flying are made to suffer and ultimately end up leaving.  

 

It's totally baffling, especially in light of the several other aviation forums that have already banned the unnamed individual.  But whatever, I imagine this post will be deleted by the hall monitors as my last one was. 

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This is where I am also. I used to post quite a lot, Ask questions and contribute. Now I use a word- in parentheses - and this person turns it into a nonsensical debate.

I am very near the point where I will intentionally get booted in order to say what I really think.

It cannot be that the admin does not notice this, but for some reason they choose to punish the long time productive contributors rather than the constant PITA

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It may be time for a new forum. If it wasn't for Roger this one would have died because of a lack of administrative action.

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I'm on several forums. I like well educated debates, but will never just get into a pissing match towards an individual and never just slam ideas or a person. I have no issues with a Pitbull attitude where a poster will dig up document and research a topic to improve his point and or help another understand. We all learn from each other and yes some have a little more exposure to somethings, schooling and or experience. That makes no difference it is still a trade of ideas. We all have something to offer. Things in black and white can many times be taken wrong from what the original poster meant and even his/her demeanor. On every forum there are things that are posted that isn't quite correct. So what. We are here to interact, socialise, learn and share.

There are times in life, at home and on these forums that test our patients and restraints which are virtues and sometimes we need to stand up walk away go look in the mirror and remind ourselves we are supposed to be above petty highschool type squabbles.

 

We are supposed to be wiser, smarter and more tolerant with age. Maybe we aren't old enough yet.  :fainting-1344:

Someone who lived and died with anger and intolerance of his fellow man and the world was never wise.  :ive_got_it-1379:

 

Not a single person here is tied to a chair and forced to hostilely debate or attack any other poster. Many of us are friends and make fun joking jabs at times and that's okay so long as the receiver sees it as that. Black and white is not always accepted as we meant it. Hopefully an emoticon helps the receiver with the fun intent.  :)

 

ALL of us gets to make a choice as to whether we want or even need to respond to a post and dive into a long debate. 

 

No one can get you upset unless you allow that to happen. Seems to me walking away and becoming wiser with age would dictate that sometimes no response is the best response. I really doubt if people walked away from a post that may or may not be correct is going to have life altering affects.

 

Don't allow people to rein over your emotions because then they control you and you have allowed them that control.

p.s.

It might save you money on blood pressure medication too.  :phew-941:

 

 

So have we beat flaps up yet?  :giggle-3307: 

 

If you personally know what kind of flaps on on your plane it sounds like a done deal.  :hi-1082:

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CT, my point is that some topics don't belong here.  I have made this point before. 

 

It is not about safe-zones or about snowflakes or about "freedom of speech".  If this were the only place on the web to discuss gun control, presidential politics, climate change, etc, etc, that would be one thing.  It isn't.  This is a site about flying and CT airplanes.  I go elsewhere when I want to discuss other issues.

 

The "freedom of speech" issue is completely off point.  Sorry, but your right to free speech is in the public square, not on every forum and chat room on the internet.  My desire to not hear your opinions on climate change (or anybody else's regardless of whether I agree or disagree) here on CT Flier  is not any form of restriction on your constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech.  Frankly, I would appreciate not being accused of such.

 

My other and more central point has to do with ongoing tolerance of statements and information of dubious value.  Everybody gets the point.  Nothing ever happens about it.

 

Thanks. 

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I do agree with you Fred. Some topics would be better served on forums meant for those specific ideas or personal preferences.

 

 

Just think if you started a no holds barred on religion, politics, guns or abortion. :shoot_me-1022:

Not a place i even care to go and read. If you can't hold it together on flaps then these may lead to contract killings.   :sinister-904:  :giggle-3307:

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I have a little different take on this. This used to be my go to place for information. Now, mainly because of one person using the word "flaperon" has become a point of contention many for numerous posts. It happens in a regular basis and has degraded the value of the forum.

I make phone calls now instead.

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Every single aviation-related thread here that degenerates into a sh!tstorm has ONE single poster at its heart.  One.  Every time.  

 

Does everybody have something to contribute?  Maybe.  Does that contribution outweigh a disruptive user's damage to the fabric of the community?  Seems unlikely, especially when that user constantly peddles half-truths, myths, and outright lies pertaining to aviation on a regular basis.

 

Saying we all make a choice on how to react, and that nobody can makes us upset but ourselves is very Zen Buddhist.  When there is only one awful user left on this forum, maybe you'll find out if a post full of BS goes unchallenged, if it then becomes truth.  Very Zen. 

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Every single aviation-related thread here that degenerates into a sh!tstorm has ONE single poster at its heart.  One.  Every time.  

 

Well hopefully he prescribes his own medicine, and once rid of his CTLSi will summarily mute himself an a non-owner non-flyer.

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