Foot rest

[Tom Baker]

Like almost everything else, people will disagree.  Personally, I will not place any objects on the floor in front of the front seats.

 

To be fair the foot rest could have prevented a passenger I had from getting their foot wedged between the two rudder pedals. It caused considerable rudder deflection, but fortunately it happened on the ground.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Thanks Tom and Roger.

 

At my cruise speeds of 110+ knots, if I fully deflect the controls I will have significantly exceeded the aircraft's 4g structural limit, and still not be in a stall.  I don't cruise at 14,000ft where it's possible for my WOT indicated airspeed to be less than Va.

 

CT, I'm sorry my experiences "don't count", but yeah I have been in the "well I guess this is it" mindset several times.  I'm not sure it's different just because you are sitting in an airplane.  Those experiences are not going to make me an overly-fearful basket case.  How do you deal with the autopilot?  It might take you a second or so to click it off or power through it and shear the pins in an emergency, but I don't hear you telling people using one is just dumb...

 

I have a disengage button on my stick and I don't have to shear any pins to overpower the servos.  I often overpower my AP for a short time.  I see a big difference between something that blocks access to the controls and something that is designed to manipulate the controls.  In a real stick and rudder emergency I bet I wouldn't even feel the AP if I failed to disengage first.

 

Do you not have a button on your stick for this purpose?

[gbigs]

 

How do you deal with the autopilot?  It might take you a second or so to click it off or power through it and shear the pins in an emergency, but I don't hear you telling people using one is just dumb...

 

The Dynon autopilot default settings will disengage the AP before the shear pins break (MAX G FORCE).  This is why the system puts out a warning message in rough air regarding adjusting elevator trim so the pitch down moment wont be too extreme when/if the AP releases.  This is also a big reason one should never fully remove a hand from the stick in AP mode. 

[FlyingMonkey]

The Dynon autopilot default settings will disengage the AP before the shear pins break (MAX G FORCE).  This is why the system puts out a warning message in rough air regarding adjusting elevator trim so the pitch down moment wont be too extreme when/if the AP releases.  This is also a big reason one should never fully remove a hand from the stick in AP mode.

 

Untrue. I know a CT pilot with the Dynon AP that is on his third set of shear pins, it takes very little to break them. I have a TruTrak.

[FlyingMonkey]

I have a disengage button on my stick and I don't have to shear any pins to overpower the servos.  I often overpower my AP for a short time.  I see a big difference between something that blocks access to the controls and something that is designed to manipulate the controls.  In a real stick and rudder emergency I bet I wouldn't even feel the AP if I failed to disengage first.

 

Do you not have a button on your stick for this purpose?

I do have a stick AP button. My point is what is necessary to gain full control from the AP consumes about the same time as flipping down the foot rest. If I'm using a rest I have sufficient altitude to recover the airplane from any condition it gets in to. This is just not a big deal.

[Duane Jefts]

My suggestion would be "don't knock it until you've tried it".  I keep one of the footrests on the co-pilot side so my passengers can be more comfortable. 

 

I would never put one on the pilots side while I am flying.  I don't see anything wrong on the non flying side.    It is purely a passenger comfort issue and, as a side benefit, it prevents them from an accidental rudder input.

[Ed Cesnalis]

On the passenger side I'm not knocking it as much.  Upstream we learned that the old pvc design broke.  Is there a potential control jamming issue?  The AP is different  in that it is not a homemade design.

[Roger Lee]

Why would anyone put a footrest on the pilot side? This is strictly for passenger comfort.

[Tom Baker]

Why would anyone put a footrest on the pilot side? This is strictly for passenger comfort.

 

I am wondering that myself, but there is this from earlier in this thread.

"Designed correctly there is no way for such a rest to interfere. The above design looks good. I'm working on one now myself for the pilot side, I have one of the originals for my passenger side. The only potential issue is quick access to the rudder pedals, but that would not be a problem in avoiding a bird, plane, or other hazard. These are really for use in level cruise flight only (on pilot side, anyway), where rudder use is not required."          

[FlyingMonkey]

I am planning a small one for the pilot side.  In cruise flight for very long legs I don't see a safety issue.  Clearly I'm in the minority.

[Roger Lee]

The PASSENGER foot rest in no way can interfere with the pedals, in no way can it even be forced to interfer, it can keep loose cockpit debris from interfering with the pedals, it can be engaged or disengaged in 2 seconds and it can be completely removed from the plane in 3 seconds. It can make passengers more comfortable and can keep some heavy footed passengers off the pedals. It does give the passenger something to push back on to get pushed back in the seat or stretch.

There are absolutely no drawbacks to the original footrest use or design.

 

If you have not seen or used this original footrest design then we may as well be talking about cutting a raw diamond tomorrow and it's pros and cons.

[Ed Cesnalis]

The PASSENGER foot rest in no way can interfere with the pedals, in no way can it even be forced to interfer, ...

 

The opening is a rectangle,  wider than tall.  Assuming the foot rest doesn't fasten its susceptible to negative g's.  Once it removes itself what stops the foot rest from reorienting and entering the pedal area end first?

[FlyingMonkey]

The opening is a rectangle,  wider than tall.  Assuming the foot rest doesn't fasten its susceptible to negative g's.  Once it removes itself what stops the foot rest from reorienting and entering the pedal area end first?

 

It slots onto the pedal mount block.  It can't come off the floor.  The actual footrest part could flop under negative g, but has no way to interfere with the pedals.  A metal stop keeps it from going into the actual pedal area, even at full deflection of one of the pedals.

[FlyingMonkey]

Since so many people are against this idea on the pilot side, I'm considering a change.  I have two ideas to change the footrest:

 

1)  Make the rest portion spring-loaded, so if your feet come off of it, it folds down immediately. 

 

or

 

2)  Make the rest "half height" so even with it up you can still use the pedals, but at the expense of a less comfortable rest.

 

Does either of those sound more acceptable?

[Ed Cesnalis]

It slots onto the pedal mount block.  It can't come off the floor.  The actual footrest part could flop under negative g, but has no way to interfere with the pedals.  A metal stop keeps it from going into the actual pedal area, even at full deflection of one of the pedals.

 

You speak as though there is a single design.   You say it can't come off the floor, does it fasten?  

[Ed Cesnalis]

Since so many people are against this idea on the pilot side, I'm considering a change.  I have two ideas to change the footrest:

 

1)  Make the rest portion spring-loaded, so if your feet come off of it, it folds down immediately. 

 

or

 

2)  Make the rest "half height" so even with it up you can still use the pedals, but at the expense of a less comfortable rest.

 

Does either of those sound more acceptable?

 

 

biggest complaint remains, owner designs that  potentially block the rudder pedals are a bad idea.  even a really smart guy like you can see it as no issue.  

 

I like how its argued that these devises can't interfere, makes me want to make a video showing how a broomstick can't enter the pedal area because its longer than the opening.  These things have 3 dimensions, are not fastened, risk not understood by their designers, owner approved designs.

 

If I envision a real stick and rudder emergenchy I have a few seconds to avoid contat, as soon as  I realize the pedals are covered I'm likely to give up, my reactions won't work.  I'd be more likely to break the foot rest then move it out of the way first.

[Ed Cesnalis]

CTs are short coupled / highly maneuverable  designs, as long as rudder input is included.

[FlyingMonkey]

Any loose item in the cockpit could conceivably interfere with controls.  Unless you are going to practice a "secure cockpit" with nothing at all loose anywhere in the cabin (pens, headsets, flashlights, phones, wallets, papers, cables/cords, hats, POH, checklists, fuel dipstick, fire extinguisher, and on and on) and the floor lockers are kept empty, then this is a risk.  In the case of the original foot rest design, the only way I see it getting "into" the controls is if the airplane is inverted and extremely nose high (to allow the rest to slide out from the pedal block), and *then* pointed almost straight down (so the now free footrest can now fall back into the pedals).  This can ONLY happen if somebody is not in the passenger seat, otherwise their legs and feet will prevent it.

 

Possible?  Sure.  Likely?  Less so that something else in the cockpit jamming a control.  If your cockpit is not free from every loose item, there is no need to single out the footrest as hazard.  If  I get a chance I will video the rest so you can see how it works.

[FlyingMonkey]

You speak as though there is a single design.   You say it can't come off the floor, does it fasten?  

 

So far there is only one design, though others are making different ones like the one that started this thread, since the originals are no longer available.  The original design slides around the pedal tube mount block ,and has rounded metal going about 90° over the pedal torque tube, preventing it from coming up off the floor.  That's why I said the airplane would have to be inverted and nose high for it to come loose, and even then it might not.

[Doug G.]

So far there is only one design, though others are making different ones like the one that started this thread, since the originals are no longer available.  The original design slides around the pedal tube mount block ,and has rounded metal going about 90° over the pedal torque tube, preventing it from coming up off the floor.  That's why I said the airplane would have to be inverted and nose high for it to come loose, and even then it might not.

If I find myself in a situation where the plane has gotten itself through the series of gyrations that it would take to get the footrest to jam the pedals I am not going to be trying to get at the pedals but the BRS handle!

[Doug G.]

I only use it on the passenger side and only have it in when I have a passenger.

[Ed Cesnalis]

So far there is only one design, though others are making different ones like the one that started this thread, since the originals are no longer available.  The original design slides around the pedal tube mount block ,and has rounded metal going about 90° over the pedal torque tube, preventing it from coming up off the floor.  That's why I said the airplane would have to be inverted and nose high for it to come loose, and even then it might not.

 

The footrest begins by blocking controls, its already in the vicinity of the rudder pedals, it is a higher level hazard.

 

There has  been more than one design, I have seen more than one.

 

I just had a thought, say you  covered the pedals and removed the sticks for the ultimate in movie watching comfort when cruising.  You could  fly my ct in nice air with  the throttle and trim wheels alone.  I'd focus on pitch and rudder the flaperon trim isn't as easy to use.

[FlyingMonkey]

 

I just had a thought, say you  covered the pedals and removed the sticks for the ultimate in movie watching comfort when cruising.  You could  fly my ct in nice air with  the throttle and trim wheels alone.  I'd focus on pitch and rudder the flaperon trim isn't as easy to use.

 

The trim wheels are uncomfortable.  I have removed them and replaced them with padded areas.  Also too much light gets in and makes it hot, I have covered the side windows and windshield with dark curtains.

[FlyingMonkey]

If I find myself in a situation where the plane has gotten itself through the series of gyrations that it would take to get the footrest to jam the pedals I am not going to be trying to get at the pedals but the BRS handle!

 

That's about the size of it to me as well.

[gbigs]

Untrue. I know a CT pilot with the Dynon AP that is on his third set of shear pins, it takes very little to break them. I have a TruTrak.

 

Your friend may have diddled with the AP settings which is possible but as I said the DEFAULT provides for a buffer.  We verified this with Dynon when the AP behaved in the way I just detailed.