Foot rest

[Ed Cesnalis]

If I find myself in a situation where the plane has gotten itself through the series of gyrations that it would take to get the footrest to jam the pedals I am not going to be trying to get at the pedals but the BRS handle!

 

 

That's about the size of it to me as well.

 

 

An upset shouldn't be an automatic pull.  Think back to your unusual attitude recovery training.  With altitude a CT can recover from any attitude from what I can see.

[FlyingMonkey]

Your friend may have diddled with the AP settings which is possible but as I said the DEFAULT provides for a buffer.  We verified this with Dynon when the AP behaved in the way I just detailed.

 

How are AP settings going to make a difference to the shear pins, which are physical devices?  My friend called Dynon after the second set broke and Dynon tech support told him they know about the issue with the pins being too easy to shear and are redesigning them.

[gbigs]

How are AP settings going to make a difference to the shear pins, which are physical devices?  My friend called Dynon after the second set broke and Dynon tech support told him they know about the issue with the pins being too easy to shear and are redesigning them.

 

The Servo Torque Setting is default set just below shearing the pins in sudden or continuous bumps.  There are three models of Dynon servos dependent on the airframe design.  The small servos SV32 are used in the Flight Design and they can only go up to 36 inch pounds before the shear pin breaks. 

 

The Dynon tech gave your friend slightly wrong information if he implied it's a design failure.  Why?  Because Dynon does make larger servos which can withstand higher torque stresses but they may allow the control element of a given plane to be exceeded.  It's a tradeoff.

[Doug G.]

An upset shouldn't be an automatic pull. Think back to your unusual attitude recovery training. With altitude a CT can recover from any attitude from what I can see.

The kind up upset this would would likely mean the next thing I would expect would be structural failure, and this would be no simple upset but radical vertical (it would probably be preceded by a serious dive in order to get that straight up) followed by a fairly sharp dive. Pull would not be automatic, but I can't imagine being in that situation without something seriously wrong.

[FlyingMonkey]

An upset shouldn't be an automatic pull.  Think back to your unusual attitude recovery training.  With altitude a CT can recover from any attitude from what I can see.

Nobody said an upset is an automatic pull. We said the forces and attitudes necessary to dislodge the footrest, and then put it in a position to interfere with the pedals, would be so extreme as to merit consideration of a pull. You are putting words in our mouths, and you have claimed a lot of knowledge about the particulars of the footrest and how dangerous it is, without ever having seen one.

[FlyingMonkey]

There is an element of risk associated with a device such as this.  Evidently, some here think otherwise, or think the risk is small enough to ignore.  Any lose object in the cabin could conceivably cause a problem and many have.

Agreed in principle. So, do you have zero loose objects in your cockpit?

[Al Downs]

Maybe this information will help for a better understanding than just the pictures. The bottom panel is quite large and when being used, your feet are on the panel holding it down. The panel fits around the pedal mounting block and cannot go forward to make any contact with the pedals. It is also wide so it cannot shift. With your feet on the bottom panel, the width and length of it and the slot around the mounting block, there is very little chance it could cause a problem.

 

I would only use it on the passenger side when occupied. Some showed interest for the pilot side so I offered it but I wouldn't use one myself. It isn't for everyone but some people are looking for a solution to their problem.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Nobody said an upset is an automatic pull. We said the forces and attitudes necessary to dislodge the footrest, and then put it in a position to interfere with the pedals, would be so extreme as to merit consideration of a pull. You are putting words in our mouths, and you have claimed a lot of knowledge about the particulars of the footrest and how dangerous it is, without ever having seen one.

 

I said above that I have seen multiple  designs, the first one about ten years ago.

 

Ok nobody said an upset is an automatic pull.  Doug did  say an upset that caused interference with the pedals was a pull.

 

I fly in the rotor zone of the highest mountains in the 48 states so my exposure to mtn waves is much higher than yours but you still have exposure.  Shear that is wave turbulence can upset you in a dramatic fashion. Footrests would be a complication but if you have access to the controls an upset isn't an automatic pull as long as you have altitude, have access to the controls and the controls still work.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Maybe this information will help for a better understanding than just the pictures. The bottom panel is quite large and when being used, your feet are on the panel holding it down. The panel fits around the pedal mounting block and cannot go forward to make any contact with the pedals. It is also wide so it cannot shift. With your feet on the bottom panel, the width and length of it and the slot around the mounting block, there is very little chance it could cause a problem.

 

I would only use it on the passenger side when occupied. Some showed interest for the pilot side so I offered it but I wouldn't use one myself. It isn't for everyone but some people are looking for a solution to their problem.

 

Hi Al,

 

Good info on your design.  I would point out that in an upset you can no longer expect the passenger's feet to remain on the plate with pressure to keep it in place.

[Al Downs]

I agree with you that  a severe upset would possibly reduce the downward pressure of your feet but the size of the base would prevent it from coming out of place with your legs directly above it. Also the front three inch's or so is under the pedals and kept in place by the slot that goes around the mounting block.

 

Nothing is perfect and every pilot has their own set of personal minimums. Once someone decides this will work as a solution for their problem they will have to determine if the minimal risk is worth it. Just like watching the storm heading toward your flight path. It will work for some and not for others.

[Doug G.]

I said above that I have seen multiple  designs, the first one about ten years ago.

 

Doug did  say an upset that caused interference with the pedals was a pull.

 .

No, I said that an upset so severe that it would cause the footrest to slide from its wedge between the carpet and the pedals and then fall back into the pedals would be almost beyond imagining since it would take a true vertical attitude long enough for the footrest to work loose quickly followed by a dive both of which were not caused by control inputs. If loss of control is not a reason to pull then when would you? Only when parts start coming from the plane?

The picture in my head is of Wile E. Coyote smashing into the ground and then the chute popping up above his mangled body!

[Roger Lee]

I think we are way out of the for sale or buying a footrest category. How about starting a new thread . For sale category shouldn't be about flying, spins or loss of control.

[Mike Koerner]

On the CT2k I don't have an autopilot, or even rudder trim, so I not qualified to discuss Andy's usage.

However, I have flown significant distances with right-seaters who are willing (even eager) to take the controls for a spill. In fact, I slept for a couple hours on the fore-mentioned trip. (I probably shouldn't go into too much detail as to the right-seater's qualifications except to say he's fast learner). In such cases a pilot-side foot rest would come in handy.

Mike Koerner