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Tom Baker

Aero Classic 4.00x6 6 ply tires

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Has anyone else had any issues with the Aero Classic 4.00x6 6 ply tires? A couple years ago at annual time I found both main tires had a bulging spot. Neither tire had much time on them. I sent the tires back to Desser, and they replaced them. They said there was a defect in the tires. It is annual time 2 years later, and again both main tires have a bad spot in them. This time I noticed that it is opposite the heavy spot on the tire.

 

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Has anyone else had any issues with the Aero Classic 4.00x6 6 ply tires? A couple years ago at annual time I found both main tires had a bulging spot. Neither tire had much time on them. I sent the tires back to Desser, and they replaced them. They said there was a defect in the tires. It is annual time 2 years later, and again both main tires have a bad spot in them. This time I noticed that it is opposite the heavy spot on the tire.

 

I have not noticed this across several sets over four years.  Will keep an eye out for it though!  Is the bulging in the tread or sidewall?  Next opportunity I will pull the wheel pants and check all the way around.  

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Anticept   

We've veen using them for a long time. Periodically one will come through with problems but usually they are reliable.

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I would be willing to bet that this is caused by braking on landing. Not so much a bulge as it is flat spots. I see this on lots of tires and not just the 4.00-6.  It's quite common. I would bet the flat spots are on the outside of the tire and not the inside.. 

Think of your tire not firmly planted with all the planes weight. and if you apply brake it erases the tire in that one spot. Depending on a type of landing it could also erase a spot. Possibly  a little side load. In the second picture you can see the scrape marks.

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I would be willing to bet that this is caused by braking on landing. Not so much a bulge as it is flat spots. I see this on lots of tires and not just the 4.00-6.  It's quite common. I would bet the flat spots are on the outside of the tire and not the inside.. 

Think of your tire not firmly planted with all the planes weight. and if you apply brake it erases the tire in that one spot. Depending on a type of landing it could also erase a spot. Possibly  a little side load. In the second picture you can see the scrape marks.

 

Roger, I have been working on airplanes since the early 1980's. I have seen my share of flat spots from small ones, to ground all the way through and replacing a tire on the runway. These are not flat spots. I returned the tires in the pictures to Desser, and they said that the tires were defective.

 As for braking on landing I am in the airplane 75% of the time when it flies, and trained the ones who fly solo. The airplane does not get hard braking on landing.

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Doug G.   

I saw something similar with a binding (not stuck) brake. I suspect it made the tire touch down on the same spot each time. I replaced the pads and made sure everything was properly aligned. Problem solved.

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Anticept   

Those bumps and bulges are usually caused by the casing separating from the chord. Air can get in between. Most often it's a defect in the tire. Roger isn't wrong though, mishandling can cause it too.

 

Buldges are not safe at all. If you have one, replace the tire, its significantly weakened.

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This was definitely not a brake or landing issue. It was a tire issue. Looking at a picture is not the same as seeing it in person and laying hands on the bump. I was just wondering if anyone else has had the same issue.

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LS Bruce   

I'm on my third set of these tires. I've noticed they are very poorly balanced. I've usually had to line up 8-13 tape weights (1/4oz). Also, they seem to be very soft. They wear out quickly and will flat spot easy. I wish there was some other choice, but they seem to be the only maker of the 400-6 size.

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Anticept   

When you order the tires, tell them to have them balanced. I think they knock off a little rubber for balancing them but it really takes the shake out.

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Hi Tom,

 

Definitely not just a flat spot on that one.

 

I balance every single tire I put on. Most take between 2  & 8 x 1/4 oz. weights. I do find occasionally that a a tire and have found tubes that won't balance without 14-20 weights. That's absolutely unacceptable and those go back to Desser.

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Hi Tom,

 

Definitely not just a flat spot on that one.

 

I balance every single tire I put on. Most take between 2  & 8 x 1/4 oz. weights. I do find occasionally that a a tire and have found tubes that won't balance without 14-20 weights. That's absolutely unacceptable and those go back to Desser.

That tire is the same as the tires I pictured earlier. I just removed the 2 tires that replaced the bad tires from 2 years ago, for the same issue. The last picture I posted is one that I just removed.

 

I also balance each tire. I have found that you can keep rotating the tire in relation to the valve stem and minimize the weight needed to balance the tire tube combo.

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WmInce   

I have found that you can keep rotating the tire in relation to the valve stem and minimize the weight needed to balance the tire tube combo.

Tom,

 

Does that techique above, take the Desser "red dot" (on the sidewall), into consideration?

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Tom,

Does that techique above, take the Desser "red dot" (on the sidewall), into consideration?

The 4.00x6 tires are not balanced, and do not have the red dot. At least not the ones I have had. The 6.00x6 tires do have the red dot. With those I line it up with the valve stem or balance mark on the tube. BTW, I haven't seen a balance mark on a tube in over 10 years.

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WmInce   

The 4.00x6 tires are not balanced, and do not have the red dot. At least not the ones I have had. The 6.00x6 tires do have the red dot. With those I line it up with the valve stem or balance mark on the tube. BTW, I haven't seen a balance mark on a tube in over 10 years.

Thank you.

On my Monster 6.00x6's, i did finally get them balanced, but it took a lot of weight on both of them. I divided the weights on both sides of the wheels. Then marked the wheels at each end weights (with a red felt tip pen), to indicate if any get thrown off. So far . . so good.

Thanks to Roger's recommendation, I used a Mark Parnes balancer. It does a great job. Extremely precise.

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Some tires can't be balanced. I have rotated many at 90 degree angles all the way around. Some tires just take too much weight. Desser will take them back and send an new one no questions ask. I have also found 2 tubes that caused the same thing.

The stem on a tube won't equal 20 x 1/4 oz. weights of lead. You won't see red dots on the small tires. They consider those tail wheels. I already ask that question of them.

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I also balance each tire. I have found that you can keep rotating the tire in relation to the valve stem and minimize the weight needed to balance the tire tube combo.

 

How do you do this without having to disassemble the wheel to make adjustments?  I have tried this and it has not worked for me.

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I had heard of using a motorcycle tire balancer before, but missed the reference to Mark Parnes.

Wmince wrote:

"Thanks to Roger's recommendation, I used a Mark Parnes balancer. It does a great job. Extremely precise."

 

Here is a link:

 

http://marcparnes.com/

 

Which version did you purchase? Universal or for a specific bike?

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Runtoeat   

FWIW, my mechanic recently needed to install a set of 31" diameter tundra tires on a Stinson.  These huge tires were mounted on 6" diameter wheels same as we have on our CTs.  He needed a lot of weight to bring these into balance and had little to work with due to the 6" wheels.  He used large tire patching "boots" on the insides of the tires to get them into balance and then finished off the balance with lead 1/4 oz. weights.  This required first mounting the tires with tubes to determine where to apply the boots, then removing the tires/tubes, gluing the boots on the inside of the tires and reinstalling.  The end result was a balanced set of huge tundra tires with very few wheel weights.  This also meant that there were few weights that could be knocked off during rough landings/takeoffs.  This will work on a smaller scale with our size tires should we get a tire that is outside the normal balance specs and we choose not to go thru the hassle of sending it back for a better balanced tire.

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How do you do this without having to disassemble the wheel to make adjustments?  I have tried this and it has not worked for me.

 

Andy, I still have the Marc wheels. I don't think it would work with the Matco wheels. Also as a reference point I am using the heavy tubes. I can simply let the air out and break the bead. The wheel will hold the stem and the tube rotates in the tire. Also I don't think it would work if it has been assembled for very long.

 

For the Marc wheels I simply balance on the axle using the bearings in the wheel. For the Matco wheels I have an old Snap On wheel balancer that work real well.

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Andy, I still have the Marc wheels. I don't think it would work with the Matco wheels. Also as a reference point I am using the heavy tubes. I can simply let the air out and break the bead. The wheel will hold the stem and the tube rotates in the tire. Also I don't think it would work if it has been assembled for very long.

 

For the Marc wheels I simply balance on the axle using the bearings in the wheel. For the Matco wheels I have an old Snap On wheel balancer that work real well.

 

Ah.  I have tried with the Matcos to split the wheels and rotate the tires 90° at a time, and it really didn't help the balance at all.  I wonder if the wheels themselves are not well balanced.

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