Buckaroo Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 I'm getting ready to fly my 2007 CTSW with 680 hours down to Fairfield Ut Rocky Mountain Kitplanes for the work. I'll forward payment and they will order the hose kit. I'm also having the annual completed by them. My question is what other parts would be good to order and change out on the plane. I'm trying to avoid having to wait around for a parts order. I don't mind having work done that may not be due now but would be good to get done during this visit. Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 Make sure the front strut is taken apart and greased. If the strut still has the spring and the pucks haven't been installed, order the pucks before you go and have these ready to install. If the pucks have been installed already, they can compress and sag over time. You may need one or two new ones, or need to replace all if they are really deteriorated, to bring the strut back to full extension. It's really important to keep the internal tubes, bronze bushings, sliding pin and pucks well greased. And you thought I was kidding when I said I love to spend other people's money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 Make sure the front strut is taken apart and greased. If the strut still has the spring and the pucks haven't been installed, order the pucks before you go and have these ready to install. If the pucks have been installed already, they can compress and sag over time. You may need one or two new ones, or need to replace all if they are really deteriorated, to bring the strut back to full extension. It's really important to keep the internal tubes, bronze bushings, sliding pin and pucks well greased. And you thought I was kidding when I said I love to spend other people's money! Oh man this is valuable information to me thank you! I have one shot to get it right! I will include this for sure! Any other ideas please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 Along with what Dick said, there is a sliding "pin" in the nose gear strut that wears and increases steering slop and a subsequent tendency towards shimmy. The part is about two inches long and is either 11 or 12 mm in diameter with flats milled on the sides. I do not remember which years use the 11mm and which years use the 12mm. Roger may have them in stock. Having the prop dynamically balanced is something owners tend to find well worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 The front end may be fine. You have two simple quick test to try. First have someone push down on the tail so the front nose is off the ground by at least 1". Wiggle the nose wheel left to right. It should be tight and no more than about 1/4" of side to side play. If it is more then replace the guide pin. Next lift the plane at the base of the prop about 1-2" off the ground and set it back down slightly firm. The front end should have no up or down free play and should be firm. If it has play replace all 6 red polyurethane spacers. The red spacers and the pin are consumable products and eventually will wear down. Plopping the front end down hard all the time will just accelerate this process. If the front end has side to side free play do not wait to get this fixed. The longer you wait the wider that slot will get and that could get more expensive. If the front end wobbles on touchdown your too late and should have already fixed this. If the front end is solid just leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Along with what Dick said, there is a sliding "pin" in the nose gear strut that wears and increases steering slop and a subsequent tendency towards shimmy. The part is about two inches long and is either 11 or 12 mm in diameter with flats milled on the sides. I do not remember which years use the 11mm and which years use the 12mm. Roger may have them in stock. Having the prop dynamically balanced is something owners tend to find well worth the money. Great tip thanks! It's on my list now!???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 The front end may be fine. You have two simple quick test to try. First have someone push down on the tail so the front nose is off the ground by at least 1". Wiggle the nose wheel left to right. It should be tight and no more than about 1/4" of side to side play. If it is more then replace the guide pin. Next lift the plane at the base of the prop about 1-2" off the ground and set it back down slightly firm. The front end should have no up or down free play and should be firm. If it has play replace all 6 red polyurethane spacers. The red spacers and the pin are consumable products and eventually will wear down. Plopping the front end down hard all the time will just accelerate this process. If the front end has side to side free play do not wait to get this fixed. The longer you wait the wider that slot will get and that could get more expensive. If the front end wobbles on touchdown your too late and should have already fixed this. If the front end is solid just leave it alone. Thanks Roger I'll try this tomorrow great forum!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 I'm not an expert and can only rely on my own experience with my front strut. When I received my CT, I flew it for a couple of years with no idea that the strut was a part of my CT that was in need of inspection. I happened to see the information on our forum about the urethane puck replacement for the spring so my strut was torn down for this. Inspection done at this tear down revealed the front strut was operating "dry" (i.e., almost no grease) and as suspected it still had the outdated spring. The slot showed wear and the pin was really worn and needed replacing. There was rust and wear found on the slot and pin. If there is no clear entry in the airframe log saying the strut has been serviced, it seems to me that it would behoove Buckaroo to have his mechanic inspect his strut to insure it has been maintained properly. Once the slot or the bronze bearings are worn, there are only expensive methods available for one to fix this. A little TLC, combined with a little grease, is a much less expensive.option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 I'm not an expert and can only rely on my own experience with my front strut. When I received my CT, I flew it for a couple of years with no idea that the strut was a part of my CT that was in need of inspection. I happened to see the information on our forum about the urethane puck replacement for the spring so my strut was torn down for this. Inspection done at this tear down revealed the front strut was operating "dry" (i.e., almost no grease) and as suspected it still had the outdated spring. The slot showed wear and the pin was really worn and needed replacing. There was rust and wear found on the slot and pin. If there is no clear entry in the airframe log saying the strut has been serviced, it seems to me that it would behoove Buckaroo to have his mechanic inspect his strut to insure it has been maintained properly. Once the slot or the bronze bearings are worn, there are only expensive methods available for one to fix this. A little TLC, combined with a little grease, is a much less expensive.option. Yes I've noted these inspections down and plan to bring them to the attention of Rocky Mountain Kit Planes. I'm not sure if they will be aware of these things but I believe they are a FD authorized repair station. I'll call Tom and ask about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausctls Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 For anyone replacing the 6 polyurethane spacers in the front strut, a small ratchet strap works well to compress & hold it all together whilst securing the locking nut at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 All you really should need to do is place the front end down on the floor a press downward with your ratchet to get the nut to engage. I've never needed anything, but that. Yes sometimes you have to press hard, but have never found a time when any thing else was needed. I can see where a ratchet strap would work. The way to check a front end is to first lift it up off the floor about an inch and see if the front end wobbles left & right. Then set it back down and lift the front end by grabbing up close to the prop hub and lift the plane about 2" - 3" and let it down firmly. The front end should feel firm and have no up and down free play. The red polyurethane spacers are a wearable item and depending on how many times the front end hits the ground with some force will need replacement at some point. It's fairly easy to do. Takes maybe an 45 min. to an hour. p.s. If you need the red spacers I have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 I was looking at an old worker today and was wondering, have you put your hose kit together yet? I could go to a couple work orders from last year and compile a list with quantities, and part numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Tom, if you could reconstruct a list of hose sizes and lengths for CTSW it would really be helpful. I imagine CTLS owners would appreciate one for their model too if you are able to provide this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Hello Tom! I'm waiting for my local Rotax expert to return from snow birding in Texas over the winter. He ran a Ranz build operation here and installed Rotax power. He knows Rotax well and I want to run the rubber replacement by him first. My plan is to fly my bird to Rocky Mountain Kit Build in Utah and get the whole engine and annual done. I'm curious how much should I expect to pay for the worse case replacement in parts? Do you have a listing of those parts? Thanks Buckaroo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 I was looking at an old worker today and was wondering, have you put your hose kit together yet? I could go to a couple work orders from last year and compile a list with quantities, and part numbers. That would be great Tom. You are a valuable resource to this CT community. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 I have the parts list from the last 2 that I have done that includes description and quantity. I will have to modify them by adding part numbers, and removing my retail pricing. I'll have something up in the next few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Tom that would be very helpful to me and others on the forum! Thanks for taking the time to do this! You're very generous and this forum is the best! Arian sent me this list of part numbers for the hose change out minus the hoses. He thought this was the complete list. O-rings (Rotax): Valve cover set P/N 881 920: 1 Coolant elbow P/N 950 180: 4 Intake manifold P/N 230-910: 4 Carb flange P/N 230 300: 2 Other parts: Carb flanges P/N 267 789: 2 Carb diaphragm P/N 861 115: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Tom that would be very helpful to me and others on the forum! Thanks for taking the time to do this! You're very generous and this forum is the best! Arian sent me this list of part numbers for the hose change out minus the hoses. He thought this was the complete list. O-rings (Rotax): Valve cover set P/N 881 920: 1 Coolant elbow P/N 950 180: 4 Intake manifold P/N 230-910: 4 Carb flange P/N 230 300: 2 Other parts: Carb flanges P/N 267 789: 2 Carb diaphragm P/N 861 115: I have never changed the O-rings 950-180 for the coolant elbows at the rubber replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 As promised here is my list. It is in word format. Edited the attachment to include CEET ducting. CTSW Rubber Replacement Parts List.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 How much should we expect to pay for this list of parts? Who's the best source of these? Would your major recognized shop mind you buying this set and taking them in and providing them for the work? Are there any more things you would recommend in addition to these for those that want to make sure while grounded for this job gets done as well? Mines a 2007 CTSW and I want everything that could be done at 685 hours done! Even things that might go wrong in wear out parts done as a precaution. Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 No reason to change any "O" rings other than the two on the carb sockets. You change "O" rings when you start pulling parts off. No reason to do that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 No reason to change any "O" rings other than the two on the carb sockets. You change "O" rings when you start pulling parts off. No reason to do that here. I only replace o-rings for things that I have taken apart. I sometimes remove the intake manifolds to gain access to the coolant fittings, so I replace those o-rings. Since I remove the rocker covers to check the valves after the pressure purge I replace those. When it comes to replacing o-rings and gaskets I follow Rotax recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 As promised here is my list. It is in word format. Thanks Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 If you buy parts from the shop I would expect to spend $1,800 or more if also doing the condition inspection. It will also depend on their mark up on parts. Another factor on parts would be if they use substitutions and don't replace seals and o-rings as recommended by Rotax. I charge 28 hours labor as the norm for a hose change on a CTSW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 Hi Tom, That sounds really high. I'm down around $1100. My guess in the difference is where and what we buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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