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FlyingMonkey

ICON Fatal Accident

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23 minutes ago, WmInce said:

With your eyes closed, you'll never know the difference.

You sure there's no difference in feel?  I just read that Roy was flying 5' of the water so to make my point lets use a 20kt wind and a 75kt airspeed.

I have to wonder if the downwind wingtip 5' of the water with at 55kt water surface speed wouldn't feel a bit different than the same thing with a 95kt WSS?

What about ground water surface effect?

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WmInce   
55 minutes ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

You sure there's no difference in feel?  I just read that Roy was flying 5' of the water so to make my point lets use a 20kt wind and a 75kt airspeed.

I have to wonder if the downwind wingtip 5' of the water with at 55kt water surface speed wouldn't feel a bit different than the same thing with a 95kt WSS?

What about ground water surface effect?

I am not worried about getting run over by ants . . . it's the elephants that concern me.:)

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Runtoeat   

I'm a low hour pilot with around 850 hours in my CTSW.  Just after I received my Sport certificate, I recall my flight instructor telling me that the most dangerous time for a new pilot is during the first 100 or so hours.  The reason my CFI gave for this is that the very low hour pilots will probably not have flown enough to experience one of those "heart stopping" moments when the sh*t hits the fan and so these pilots have an overabundance of confidence in their abilities.  IMHO based on my personal experiences, there is a major danger for low hour pilots to reconcile ground speed with airspeed.  Even though ground speed might be displayed on our instruments, I think there is a disconnect in most new pilot's minds how fast we are really traveling across the ground.  Our airspeed might be 110 kts or more and our ground speed may be more or  less due to prevailing wind but there is a not the feeling of speed across the ground due to the lack of near objects needed to give us a scale to judge our velocity with.  When flying GA and LSA planes we are going extremely fast both thru the air and across the ground but this is not sensed unless we are very near landmarks on the ground or are maneuvering alongside another aircraft and can witness shockingly fast lateral closing rates if attention is not paid to each other's aircraft positions.  I'm wondering if the Icon's pilot was not fully comprehending his high ground speed, even when down near the surface, due to the featureless ocean surface not providing the visual clues needed to judge the high velocity the Icon was traveling at?

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Buckaroo   
54 minutes ago, Runtoeat said:

I'm a low hour pilot with around 850 hours in my CTSW.  Just after I received my Sport certificate, I recall my flight instructor telling me that the most dangerous time for a new pilot is during the first 100 or so hours.  The reason my CFI gave for this is that the very low hour pilots will probably not have flown enough to experience one of those "heart stopping" moments when the sh*t hits the fan and so these pilots have an overabundance of confidence in their abilities.  IMHO based on my personal experiences, there is a major danger for low hour pilots to reconcile ground speed with airspeed.  Even though ground speed might be displayed on our instruments, I think there is a disconnect in most new pilot's minds how fast we are really traveling across the ground.  Our airspeed might be 110 kts or more and our ground speed may be more or  less due to prevailing wind but there is a not the feeling of speed across the ground due to the lack of near objects needed to give us a scale to judge our velocity with.  When flying GA and LSA planes we are going extremely fast both thru the air and across the ground but this is not sensed unless we are very near landmarks on the ground or are maneuvering alongside another aircraft and can witness shockingly fast lateral closing rates if attention is not paid to each other's aircraft positions.  I'm wondering if the Icon's pilot was not fully comprehending his high ground speed, even when down near the surface, due to the featureless ocean surface not providing the visual clues needed to judge the high velocity the Icon was traveling at?

I think you’re hitting on something that could of well caused the tragedy! I think he knew speed along the ground well as he was a low flyer type I’ve read. I think the real possible reason he plowed it in was the visual miscalculation due to the clear shallow water. I’ve flown low above the crystal clear waters of the Missouri River here in Montana and to fly lower than 20 is flat dangerous because judgement above the water is difficult. At high speed even lightly touching the water could drag her in and over just like they found him. He probably drowned I’d bet.

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Runtoeat   

I'm having a hard time imagining why this adult pilot, who is an accomplished athlete, might act in such a reckless manner.  I'm wondering if there's something that prompted this crazy type of flying other than just to say he was "hot dogging"?  

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It's a sad thing. I regard his flight time in the A5 and overall to be decent by light sport standards. But the way he was flying was inexcusable. He was acting like an aerobatic pilot without a plan. It was just a matter of time before his routine would produce an aircraft attitude that his mind wasn't ready to handle. He was the classic 'bold' pilot. It's just a shame that he didn't last long enough to acquire more skill.

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My personal floor is 500 feet.  I don't fly lower than that except to take-off or land.  I also have a seaplane rating and there are times you can't hardly see the surface of the water because it reflects the clouds in the sky.

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FredG   

Dick, I know nothing of this particular pilot.  I do know many people who, because they are good at one thing, start to believe that they are good at everything.  Like I said, I know nothing of this particular pilot.  

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Runtoeat   

Fred, maybe you hit on it.  The pilot was a person who was at the top of his game in baseball and maybe he figured he could also just control anything that might come his way when flying an airplane.

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