Roger Lee Posted December 16, 2010 Report Share Posted December 16, 2010 Revision #2 New oil filter part number correction by XatorMan under ROTAX PRESS RELEASESRotax has just released the informaiton on the oil filter minor changes. In the release they inadvertently gave out the wrong part numbers. Owners and operators and service providers will be recieving the new filters under 2 different part numbers, depending on the ordering scope. (by bulk or individual) Please note the following change from the release of December 3rd. Part number 825710 and 825712, changed to 825010 and 825012 respectivly. This will be the new numbers the filter will be supplied with. It is worth repeating that all users should check the installaitons and confirm that the small change in the length of the filter, as shown in the drawing supplied from December 3rd, be verified. While it is not anticipated that this will have any ill effects the clearance, especially to the exhaust system on number 2 cylinder, has to be considered. Contact your independent Rotax distributor or independent Rotax Service Centre for any additional information. Drawing is not to scale: No tagsLeave a Commentmore...<br style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "> 3 Dec/10 Revision #1 Rotax Oil Filters changing, new part number assigned by XatorMan under ROTAX PRESS RELEASESRotax; BRP-Powertrain, is making a minor change on the oil filter for ROTAX 912 and 914 Series engines. Production of the current oil filters part no. 825704 and 825706 has been discontinued, once stock is depleted they will be not longer available. The replacement filters will have a new part no. 825710 and 825712, internally they are the same and they have been approved from engineering, however one small change has to be noted. The overall length has increased about 3.5 mm ( .138″ ) due to the production process. For detailed dimensions see attached sketch. OEM and end use customers need to check and make sure they have clearance and make any necessary changes to accommodate this new filter. The part will be coming in the first quarter of 2011. New production filter for 9 Series Rotax engines, early 2011 - Image provided as a reference only. Image is not to scale. new oil filter, rotax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy MacGregor Posted December 19, 2010 Report Share Posted December 19, 2010 This change was driven by a change of suppliers, obviously Rotax doesn't manufacture there own filters and apparently they had some issues with the current supplier (weather it be not wanting to continue suppling to the aircraft industry or because of a drastic price increase). Functionally there is no difference and there is no safety issues associated with using the old 825-706 filters until the new ones have made it to the retail level according to the factory. I'm waiting to get some more info from the factory to see if there are any benefits to this change ie, increased filtering element surface area. I'm assuming the bypass pressure rating is still the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2010 Ok this makes for a good question of the day. What is the by pass pressure on the Rotax oil filter? What is the by pass pressure for our auto industry oil filters that fit the Rotax 912? (Pure One 10241 (best filter), Fram Tough Guard 3614, ect....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy MacGregor Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Standard automotive pressure ratings are about 0.9bar-1.2bar, the Rotax oil filters are a little higher than that to ensure proper filtering and prevent pre mature bypass. This pressure differential is required because of the dry sump system. The are some other internal differences with the new filters but the specifiics about them "will be released sometime in the next month" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Ok guys I'm surprised that only one of you took a stab at this. The pressure for most US filters especially the ones I listed for the Rotax engine above are .8 - 1.0 bar which equals 12-15 psi. The Rotax filter's bypass pressure is .9 - 1.1 bar which equals 13-16 psi. I ask this question all over the US, Canada and parts of Europe and not a single person could tell me how much the rotax by pass pressure was. Eric Tucker is the one that finally told me. The next question you will undoubtedly have is, "Is that 1 psi a big deal"? Plus ask yourself, how accurate is the spring steel mechanism inside the filter? Is it up to be exactly 1 psi different? First I'm not advocating using any filter other than a Rotax filter for our SLSA's.... The answer to the above 1 psi question is no it won't make any meaningful difference and the 1 psi is not spot on anyway. Second is, "Does the Rotax medium filter better than other filters". I can tell you for a fact that the Pure One PL10241 has 3 mediums and the Rotax is a standard paper medium. The Pure One will filter smaller particles than a Rotax. Both filters can handle an easy 6 gals a minute in oil flow. Here's a question for you. How much oil a minute does our 912 Rotax flow a minute? Jeremy don't tell them let them guess. On Experimental's many use the Fram Tough Guard or the Pure One and have been for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Roger, how about 3.4 gallons oil / min. @5500 rpm? Here's a good website http://www.theultralightplace.com/specifications.htm. Of course, you probably already know all that's here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Hi Dick, Nice try, but that's old info. Look at the bottom of the page at the 1200 hr. TBO is the first clue, plus there are a few more out dated numbers. In Rotax class they give the oil circulation at 4 gpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Yup, that's old info for sure. Oh well, I tried at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 OK, I'll bite. If the Pure One PL10241 is potentially a 'better' and cheaper filter than the Rotax, why isn't it approved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Boy am I glad you ask that question because it applies to all other after market things such as fluids and parts. The easy answer is always remember when you read a Rotax SB on coolants or parts that these engines are sold worldwide and not just in the US. So Rotax can not possibly test all types of fluids or parts and give them the ok. This would cost millions of dollars. So they test what is usually, but not always, found in many different locations around the globe. Some thing like the oil filter is made for them, to their specs and near their location. It would be near impossible to test all oil filters around the world. This isn't to imply that other products around the world may not work, but to limit their liability and possible engine failures with untested products Rotax will stick to a tested known good fluid or part. The number one problem on a Rotax engine is it's owner especially ones that don't do maint. or like to experiment by doing things their way. The filters I posted fits a Toyota truck and car. When I did oil filter research a few years back I actually talked to several oil filter engineers at their companies. The engineer's will tell you any thing, but the salesman you get on the phone only will tell you what's on the paper in front of him and what's so great about his filter. Many Rotax owners with experimental's use these other filters and there are approximately 8 of them. Some really good and a few duds. Just a few filter companies make most of the filters with other companies names stamped on them. Rotax knows these other oil filters are being used and people aren't having any issues with the good filters. Once in a while someone like Champion comes along with a really garbage and potentially harmful filter. The Pure One has 3 filter medians, more surface area, filters smaller particles and is a proven filter, but Rotax will never approve it because they haven't tested it. The Pure One filter is 1/2" longer than ours and on some 912's it doesn't fit because of the exhaust is in the way. So long as someone has an SLSA in the US they will be stuck legally using the standard paper element Rotax oil filter. Just because some one like Rotax puts their name on a part doesn't mean it is superior to other items in the world. The cost we pay is certainly a premium. We pay for the Euro exchange, import taxes and a few middle men along the way, not to mention the nice mark up for a dealer. The Pure One is about $6-$7 and is made in the US so we don't have all the other expenses added on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Well, I guess Fast Eddie can be our local guinea pig since he has an E-LSA The only way other than experimental would be to get manufacturer approval for the Pure One provided you were no longer under Rotax warranty? Not likely but worth a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Well, I guess Fast Eddie can be our local guinea pig since he has an E-LSA This is one of those areas where I'll be more like a chicken and less like a guinea pig. Combination of "Most Conservative Action" and computing risk/reward ratio. Obviously the "Most Conservative Action" is to use ROTAX-labeled filters. And risk/reward? The risk is some unforeseen difference in filter composition/structure that could cause engine damage (up to $20k downside) or engine failure (possibly worse). Reward? Saving $20 or so every 50 or 100 hours. I'm NOT saying that alternative filters might not be as good as, or even better than, the ROTAX part. This is just not an area I'd choose to "experiment" in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 These other filters have been on Rotax 912's for at least 15 years that I know of and probably longer. There is no physical issue with running the good filters, but Rotax will never approve them over theirs and no plane Mfg. will ever override a Rotax specified part. I used the Pure One on my last 912 for 850 hrs. I have 2 friends that have been using the Fram Tough Guard for more than 3000 hrs each. There is absolutely nothing special about a Rotax filter other than the by pass pressure being 1 psi higher, it is just a standard paper element filter. I'm not advocating using them on our SLSA, but was just pointing out that there are other and even better parts other than Rotax at times. Rotax didn't necessarily re-invent the wheel just used existing technology and for some things made it a little better. Our ignition systems came from Ducatti motorcycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Read new Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Hi it says ''....this filter you can’t pre-fill with oil and you must turn the prop to put oil into the filter before your first start after an oil change.'' I don't get it....how can I turn the prop to put oil in the filter...? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Hi Jacques, This is no different than doing an oil purge, which by the way absolutely needs to be done after the hose change or any time the oil system is broken open other than the simple oil change. When the oil system is empty and you need to circulate the oil so it runs and fills the system you apply a little air pressure, but the main thing is to rotate the prop. You can spin the prop by hand and generate 50-55 psi and an oil flow through the system without trying that hard. Even with the old filter that could be pre-filled some people didn't do that, but the oil filter could still be filled by rotating the prop prior to its first start. This is taught in Rotax school. It will need to be rotated about 30-40 times. The one way check valve is the reason this can't be pre-filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tad Olmsted Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 All, I think I left this on another thread. Rotax spells out the oil purge in the MM and I am not suggesting otherwise ( there's my CYA clause). Here is a little trick I use to get oil fully circulated: Oil circulated, not il purge. Of course I only do an oil purge as written in the MM. 1 After the oil system is fully serviced, or oil lines changed, I take out the top spark plugs 2 disconnect the solenoid wire coming from the firewall 3 attach a remote starter solenoid switch to the post you just disconnected and the other end to the positive post on the battery ( Snap on has these swwitches on the truck) 4 be carefull the prop is clear when hooking this up, it is close quarters. 5 turn the master on, but leave the mags OFF. Dont even put the keys in the aircraft. 6 now monitor your EMS while pushing the switch and you will see your oil psi climb This will save you time and be a heck of alot easier on the body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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