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24-8003-ms

912 ignition modules

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Our 912 ignition modules are tired. They need to be warmed up for first flight of the day, or have a battery boost. The prices are horrendous. Does anyone have any ideas on where the best deals are for these items?

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A battery boost? The modules are completely independent from the electrical system. If you have to jump start your airplane, it's a battery problem. The modules do not activate until a certain minimum RPM; if you can't reach that, they will not activate.

If you spend a lot of time on the ground with all your electronics on, they will run down your battery. Use a ground charger between flights. It's a good idea to get a dual purpose charger and float charger combination device and just put it on anytime the airplane is not flying.

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I agree with Corey. If just simply doing a jump start with another battery makes it work then replace the battery it isn't the modules. Modules tend to either work or not. The but part here is one module starting circuit can give out and the plane starts on the second one, but most people would never know until the second one gives out. If you use the original battery and place an ice pack around the modules and it starts right up then replace the modules. The price is the same everywhere. I have seen on Barnstormers used modules and you may find some at some of the service center or at South Mississippi Aviation from trashed engines.

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Hi Roger and Corey - thanks for your replies - much appreciated. The aircraft has a near-new Odyssey battery that's kept on trickle when not in use. We'll do more tests before purchasing new modules. This problem has only started this year and we've never had a similar issue before, even as the old battery was nearing the end of its life. What we know does work is to place a hot towel over the modules during the walk-around. Once the modules are warm, it fires immediately. The alternative way to start is, as I mentioned, is to connect a boost battery. The engine spins well and fast even when the modules aren't firing up. 

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Make sure you buy the new modules with the yellow tag. They are a little cheaper, and running a wire will get you soft start. Assuming you don't already have these.

Or ring up a salvage yard.

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There is a Company in Holland who can completely refurbish the 912 ignition modules. Contact: info@carmo.nl 

I had both units refurbished and they are guaranteed for 12 months. The cost in Euros was just short of €500 plus postage which is much cheaper than buying new units.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Dek said:

There is a Company in Holland who can completely refurbish the 912 ignition modules. Contact: info@carmo.nl 

I had both units refurbished and they are guaranteed for 12 months. The cost in Euros was just short of €500 plus postage which is much cheaper than buying new units.

 

 

Wow, thanks for that.

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Dek, thanks for the info.  When you got your modules back, is there obvious places where the module body has been cut apart then rejoined.  Any pictures of a refurbished module?

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  What would they do to refurbish the unit  ?  I am not  a mechanical / electrical genius so please, if possible, try to keep any answer simple.  

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Although I am not technically savvy my understanding is that Carmo actually dismantle the units and replace parts internally for what they claimed to be superior to the parts used by Rotax. There is evidence of the units having been opened and then resealed after repair. I used to have to use a hairdryer on the units for ten minutes before they would fire but now it is immediate. Carmo come highly recommended. If you need more info just email the company and they are happy to explain the process to anyone who understands the technicalities. Alternatively give them a call.

Hope this helps.

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Dek, thanks.

This is the 2nd person who states that warming the module allows it to work.  I've always thought that cooling the modules (i.e., Roger Lee's recommendation?)  was the recommended way to see if the module was involved in a "no start"?

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I wouldn’t dismiss the suggestion about cooling the modules as I can only talk about my experience but I was given the tip about warming them by a very experienced Rotax engineer/inspector and it always worked. When I spoke to Carmo they confirmed that if they responded to heat then that was a normal tell tale sign that the modules were breaking down.

Whatever works.

 

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You could start a great business if you were able to repair these modules. It looks like that they all go bad at some point. Three of us that fly together have all replaced them.

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Perhaps talking to those who repair the modules might reveal which components fail.  It appears that there might be specific components which are the culprit(s). Regarding cold vs. hot, I recall early Ford ignition modules allowing a vehicle to start but then causing the engine to stop a few miles down the road.  It was discovered the potting material expanded at a different rate than the electronics and connections/components were pulled apart.  Application of cold to the modules restored start capability.  Perhaps heat brings the components back to life and cold brings connections back together on the Rotax module?

Hi Tip.  Yes, I'm surprised someone isn't doing this in the U.S - at least none that we have heard about.

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4 hours ago, Tip said:

You could start a great business if you were able to repair these modules. It looks like that they all go bad at some point.

That's an excellent idea.

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On 23/11/2017 at 10:20 AM, Anticept said:

Make sure you buy the new modules with the yellow tag. They are a little cheaper, and running a wire will get you soft start. Assuming you don't already have these.

Or ring up a salvage yard.

Thanks - we’ve tracked some down and will purchase ... appreciate the advice

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On 21/11/2017 at 7:00 PM, Anticept said:

A battery boost? The modules are completely independent from the electrical system. If you have to jump start your airplane, it's a battery problem. The modules do not activate until a certain minimum RPM; if you can't reach that, they will not activate.

If you spend a lot of time on the ground with all your electronics on, they will run down your battery. Use a ground charger between flights. It's a good idea to get a dual purpose charger and float charger combination device and just put it on anytime the airplane is not flying.

The purpose of the battery boost was to spin the engine a bit faster at startup. It seemed to work most of the time, but putting a hot towel over the modules definitely worked - engine always fires first spin

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On 23/11/2017 at 4:07 PM, Dek said:

There is a Company in Holland who can completely refurbish the 912 ignition modules. Contact: info@carmo.nl 

I had both units refurbished and they are guaranteed for 12 months. The cost in Euros was just short of €500 plus postage which is much cheaper than buying new units.

 

 

Thanks - we’ll fire one of our existing units off for a refurb to work with the replacement, which should be better as it wires in for a soft start.

 

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2 hours ago, 24-8003-ms said:

Thanks - we’ll fire one of our existing units off for a refurb to work with the replacement, which should be better as it wires in for a soft start.

 

With Rotax modules both have to be soft start to use the soft start function.

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As tom said.

If you don't use both yellowtag modules, you will still have one fire on advanced timing, completely defeating the retarded timing of the other. They will work fine with each other normally.

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21 hours ago, Anticept said:

As tom said.

If you don't use both yellowtag modules, you will still have one fire on advanced timing, completely defeating the retarded timing of the other. They will work fine with each other normally.

Got it - thanks.

 

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