iFly 740b Install

[Ben2k9]

1 hour ago, FlyingMonkey said:

I have not purchased anything yet, but that is my plan, the EchoUAT+SkyFYX-EXT.

 

Alright bear with me here...still trying to understand the nuances of what I need. Why the EXT versus the SkyFYX GPS?  Is there no existing antenna that can be used?

 

 

[Ben2k9]

3 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said:

I have not purchased anything yet, but that is my plan, the EchoUAT+SkyFYX-EXT.

 

Also...what does the SkyFYX GPS do that the internal GPS with the iFly740 doesn’t do?

thanks for the help

 

[FlyingMonkey]

2 hours ago, Ben2k9 said:

Alright bear with me here...still trying to understand the nuances of what I need. Why the EXT versus the SkyFYX GPS?  Is there no existing antenna that can be used?

 

 

The EchoUAT is the dual band ADS-B transceiver, and the SkyFYX is the WAAS GPS with
"equivalent performance" to a TSO'd unit.  The GPS needs some form of antenna, and uAvionix has two options, one of which is the weather-resistant external (EXT) antenna.  I'm choosing that over the other antenna because if reception is poor with that antenna on my glareshield, I can relocate it to the top of the airplane without buying another antenna.

[Ben2k9]

On 4/2/2018 at 10:48 AM, FlyingMonkey said:

The EchoUAT is the dual band ADS-B transceiver, and the SkyFYX is the WAAS GPS with
"equivalent performance" to a TSO'd unit.  The GPS needs some form of antenna, and uAvionix has two options, one of which is the weather-resistant external (EXT) antenna.  I'm choosing that over the other antenna because if reception is poor with that antenna on my glareshield, I can relocate it to the top of the airplane without buying another antenna.

Would one need an AHRS to power the SynVis?  I saw that iFly was releasing that update today. 

[FlyingMonkey]

57 minutes ago, Ben2k9 said:

Would one need an AHRS to power the SynVis?  I saw that iFly was releasing that update today. 

No, it will work without it.  According to iFly, it will have some limited bank and pitch info without AHARS, based on GPS info.  but it won't be precise or guaranteed to be correct.

[Ed Cesnalis]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBlackCT said:

The iFly AHRS will not work without an AHRS module feeding it the correct bank and pitch information.  I know what Walter posted, but this is misleading.  iFly willl use GPS turn data to simulate bank, but it is not something you would want to use if in the clouds.  AHRS is being released on the next iFly release due out soon.  I suggest anyone who actually wants to use this for emergency pitch and bank information, get an AHRS device to feed it.  It works great with my Stratux which has an AHRS module.  You also get pressure altitude and closest metar setting so you can always have the correct pressure altitude instead of GPS altitude.

As long as you intuitively understand the limitation and see the view being provided not as an indication of your altitude but rather a simple banked turn to point the screen in the same direction as flight.  The 3d depiction can be useful in low visibility in nav and awareness without aiding with attitude.

I do agree you should get the AHRS because attitude is more useful than syn vis most of the time. 

[WmInce]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBlackCT said:

Why are some people so eager to hail the value of a simulated AHRS based on GPS turn information?

Because they do not know any better.

[Ed Cesnalis]

2 hours ago, WmInce said:

Because they do not know any better.

I have been flying with syn vis using AHRS for over 10 years now.  I know better and stand by what I said.

[FlyingMonkey]

12 hours ago, JohnnyBlackCT said:

The iFly AHRS will not work without an AHRS module feeding it the correct bank and pitch information.  I know what Walter posted, but this is misleading.  iFly willl use GPS turn data to simulate bank, but it is not something you would want to use if in the clouds.  

Isn't that what I said? 

[FlyingMonkey]

8 hours ago, JohnnyBlackCT said:

Understanding the limitations is of no value if you have a vacuum failure in IFR and want to use the AHRS to help get to VFR weather conditions.  In VFR it's a moot point.  Flying with AHRS is certainly easier than needle, ball, and airspeed.

Why are some people so eager to hail the value of a simulated AHRS based on GPS turn information?  It can get you killed.

Vacuum failure...sounds dangerous, you should not be trying to clean out your airplane while flying IFR.  That's why I keep my vacuum on the ground. 

I don't think anybody ever said simulated AHRS should be trusted as critical flight instrumentation.  But it is another tool in the toolkit that can be used safely in conjunction with other instruments.  I don't think any of us on this forum fly airplanes whose only attitude information is simulated off a portable GPS.  I have used the SynVis in Garmin Pilot without an AHRS and gotten useful information from it.  I don't need an AHRS with it because I have an AHRS in my Dynon EFIS.

[Ed Cesnalis]

5 minutes ago, JohnnyBlackCT said:

the only reason for AHRS is to fly the airplane in instrument conditions.  It is of no use in VFR other than something to look at when you should be looking out the window.

AHRS feeds syn vision and attitude displays and both are very useful 'in VFR'.  The confirming red color for instance tells you you don't have the terrain cleared and that might be hard to judge visually at times.  Low light conditions and views obscured by clouds become mystery solved.  I was in Sierra mountain wave today and using my pitch attitude number continually, I could see fine but I can't pitch to the perfect attitude in wave conditions.  

[FlyingMonkey]

18 minutes ago, JohnnyBlackCT said:

To each his own.  IMHO, the only reason for AHRS is to fly the airplane in instrument conditions.  It is of no use in VFR other than something to look at when you should be looking out the window.  The iFly AHRS can be a great emergency tool if you have an instrument failure while in instrument conditions, but only if it is being fed by an AHRS module.

I don't disagree about AHRS and what it's good for in VFR airplanes. 

The SynVis does have some benefit though even without AHRS --  It can show terrain clearances, obstacles, and traffic (if you have ADS-B) in your direct flight path, even without the pitch & bank info provided by AHRS.     

[WmInce]

14 hours ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

I have been flying with syn vis using AHRS for over 10 years now.  I know better and stand by what I said.

And just what are you using the synthetic vision for, scud running? If that is the case, it is a recipe for disaster . . . ten years or not.

If you are not using it for that, then disregard.

[Ed Cesnalis]

54 minutes ago, WmInce said:

And just what are you using the synthetic vision for, scud running? If that is the case, it is a recipe for disaster . . . ten years or not.

If you are not using it for that, then disregard.

I use the synthetic vision to further explain what I'm seeing out the window and sometimes what I'm not seeing out the window.

Do I have that terrain cleared?  Is the area around / beyond that terrain what I expect?  

[Warmi]

I wouldn’t rely too heavy on so called synthetic vision .... It is a height map derived out of satellite scans and thus prone to all sorts of errors with values interpolated from various sources to cover for missing spots.

You never know when you gonna hit a spot that is an interpolated patch and can be off by a few hundred feet.

 

[Ed Cesnalis]

9 minutes ago, Warmi said:

I wouldn’t rely too heavy on so called synthetic vision .... It is a height map derived out of satellite scans and thus prone to all sorts of errors with values interpolated from various sources to cover for missing spots.

You never know when you gonna hit a spot that is an interpolated patch and can be off by a few hundred feet.

 

Over her, (spit) in California, our obstacles are big enough where a few hundred feet is okay.  Trying to miss big mountains

[WmInce]

One peek out the window is worth 10,000 peeks at synthetic vision.

There is good reason why they call it synthyetic.

[Ed Cesnalis]

2 minutes ago, WmInce said:

One peek out the window is worth 10,000 peeks at synthetic vision.

There is good reason why they call it synthetic.

We disagree completely.  Perhaps the fact that I fly through hundreds of giant obstacles that stick up to 3 miles into the air and you live in Florida has something to do with it?

[WmInce]

4 minutes ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

We disagree completely.  Perhaps the fact that I fly through hundreds of giant obstacles that stick up to 3 miles into the air and you live in Florida has something to do with it?

That sounds narcissistic. And stop being so condescending.

I have plenty of experience in mountain flying, unless you consider flying around Mt. Rainier, Mt. Baker and the Cascades Range otherwise.

And I don't mean at 35,000 feet.

 

 

 

[WmInce]

Meanwhile . . . what about the iFly 740b install?

[Ed Cesnalis]

50 minutes ago, WmInce said:

That sounds narcissistic. And stop being so condescending.

I have plenty of experience in mountain flying, unless you consider flying around Mt. Rainier, Mt. Baker and the Cascades Range otherwise.

And I don't mean at 35,000 feet.

 

When for no reason you suggest I scud run it naturally puts me on the defensive and I'm sincerely trying to understand how you can't see the value of the additional information supplied in low visibility or obscured situations.

no offense intended

[Ed Cesnalis]

1 hour ago, WmInce said:

That sounds narcissistic. And stop being so condescending.

I have plenty of experience in mountain flying, unless you consider flying around Mt. Rainier, Mt. Baker and the Cascades Range otherwise.

And I don't mean at 35,000 feet.

 

You made me think.  Did you fly the Cascades with syn vis or was it before the day?  I have a handful of trips to Oregon / Washington and in every case I crossed the Cascades twice and did mountain flying while I was there.  Syn Vis in the Cascades, in general is far less helpful  then the Sierra because of the lower elevations and nature of the terrain.  In the Sierra unless you cruise near the flight levels you are down in canyons and drainage where canyon exit and route avoidance issues become daily concerns.

I'm flying in extreme terrain 3-5 days a week which makes me cognicent of issues that are aided with syn vis because I'm working out these canyon problems multiple times on every flight. Its just the project I'm working on and the place I live.

To show how much I agree with you I do often do a complete hour flight, and only referenced my panel on take off and landing,  I do look out the window even when my bank is steep and I can't see.  Looking outside is primary and yet once in a while the syn vis either makes what would be a tough flight easy or provides additional info that can keep you from ever entering a canyon that out the window you can't yet see the dead end.

 

---------------------------------

 

Think about the recent fatalities with the ICON.  They mistakenly entered the wrong canyon and couldn't exit and where down near water level.  With syn vis they could have / might have noticed that beyond the canyon entrance was trouble and not the opening they expected.

 

--------------------------

 

I have been to the first 2 Page fly ins.  I witnessed from above CTs enter Lake Powell Canyons.  They are of the type that are entered blind and syn vision there could help confirm a canyon choice.  Personally I stayed above the rim.

 

---------------------------------

This is syn vis of Lake Powell where the CT has 4 options and one might be a pretty bad idea.  This is the type of case that I would confirm my choice before I made hoping it was a good one.

As I said before I watched other CTs do this from above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DJ Todd B]

I had the iFly installed just a few weeks ago and just took a 540 mile round trip 3 days ago and it worked great with the TruTrak.  The Garmin 696 was nice but I LOVE touch screen. 

[FlyingMonkey]

8 hours ago, DJ Todd B said:

I had the iFly installed just a few weeks ago and just took a 540 mile round trip 3 days ago and it worked great with the TruTrak.  The Garmin 696 was nice but I LOVE touch screen. 

Hey, could you post a couple more pics of your center panel, in brighter light?  I'm going to have to modify mine and I'd like a better idea if clearances and fit.

[DJ Todd B]

Sure.  What you don't see in this picture is that I had the AirGizmo installed so that the iFly can come out pretty quickly after removing the 4 outputs.. USB, AUX Audio, Power and Ext Antenna.  I HIGHLY recommend getting an external GPS antenna as the unit finds the satellites much quicker than the internal antenna does since the unit is buried inside the dash and the Carbon Fiber shell may block the signal.