Steep Turns

[Ed Cesnalis]

Our short winged CTs do turn steeply.  I used to only yank (pull back) enough to maintain altitude through the turn.  Lately I have been pulling back almost to the stop in order to accelerate the rate of turn and what a difference.

I'm not sure what my resulting angle is but I'm thinking I could time a 360 and do the math?

Next time I'm up solo I will time a 360, try it yourself.   

[Tom Baker]

Be careful, because as you pull harder your stall speed goes up. The increase in stall speed and decrease in airspeed while making the turn can intersect with disastrous results. 

[Ed Cesnalis]

4 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

Be careful, because as you pull harder your stall speed goes up. The increase in stall speed and decrease in airspeed while making the turn can intersect with disastrous results. 

good point on the stall speed increase but not sure what you are saying with the disastrous results.  upset and stall / spin recoveries seem strait forward.

[WmInce]

4 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

Be careful, because as you pull harder your stall speed goes up. The increase in stall speed and decrease in airspeed while making the turn can intersect with disastrous results. 

Tom, with all due respect, that only applies to mortals.

[Ed Cesnalis]

44 minutes ago, WmInce said:

Tom, with all due respect, that only applies to mortals.

I have never insulted you Bill, why insult me?

 

[Tom Baker]

1 hour ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

good point on the stall speed increase but not sure what you are saying with the disastrous results.  upset and stall / spin recoveries seem strait forward.

My comment wasn't just for your sake, but others who might go out and try this on their own. You are correct that recovery should be straight forward, yet there are still stall spin accidents that happen every year. When that stall happens un-expectedly it is different than when practicing and you know it's coming.

[Ed Cesnalis]

13 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

My comment wasn't just for your sake, but others who might go out and try this on their own. You are correct that recovery should be straight forward, yet there are still stall spin accidents that happen every year. When that stall happens un-expectedly it is different than when practicing and you know it's coming.

Thanks for explaining, I was afraid I was missing something

[ct9000]

There is a good reason why a CT does not need as much back stick in a turn. The fuselage shape is aerodynamically correct and so as you roll on more bank angle the fuselage

provides more of the lift, also why it is harder to stall in a turn. If anyone wants proof of this fact then go fly say a C172 in a 60deg. turn and note the amount of back stick needed to keep the ball centred, then try the same turn in a CT. you need only a small amount by comparison.

Ps. stalls in a CT are not scary and are in fact quite benign. Of course if you are not on top of the aircraft and stall it in a slip or skid it will get your attention like any aircraft will.

I have heard in said that a CT is aggressive in a stall and then when I got in the passenger seat to watch I saw the ball trying to climb out the side of the instrument, that is not a normal stall but a spin entry.. 

[Ed Cesnalis]

16 minutes ago, ct9000 said:

There is a good reason why a CT does not need as much back stick in a turn. The fuselage shape is aerodynamically correct and so as you roll on more bank angle the fuselage

provides more of the lift, also why it is harder to stall in a turn. If anyone wants proof of this fact then go fly say a C172 in a 60deg. turn and note the amount of back stick needed to keep the ball centred, then try the same turn in a CT. you need only a small amount by comparison.

Ps. stalls in a CT are not scary and are in fact quite benign. Of course if you are not on top of the aircraft and stall it in a slip or skid it will get your attention like any aircraft will.

I have heard in said that a CT is aggressive in a stall and then when I got in the passenger seat to watch I saw the ball trying to climb out the side of the instrument, that is not a normal stall but a spin entry.. 

 

The first part of what you say rings true.  I have always felt a sense of more lift than expected when I banked my CT right from day 1. 

 

The stall part stops making sense to me when you talk about the amount of back stick to keep the ball centered. Back stick is not to keep the ball centered but to keep the nose from dropping below the horizon as some of your vertical lift component gets replaced by horizontal.  Rudder is the fixer that you use to keep the ball in the cage not stabilator.

 

 

 

 

[FlyingMonkey]

As long as the ball is centered the airplane should stall straight down, even in an accelerated stall.  The trick with the CT is keeping the ball centered, it tends to want to wander about.  I imagine the more load in the wing in the stall, the less the ball needs to be put to snap you over.

[ct9000]

Ed a valid pick up on my last grammar, I should have said for a given amount of rudder.

Another point is that I am not picking on C172's it applies to the majority of aircraft.