Jump to content
2018 Page Fly-in Cancelled! Read more... ×

Recommended Posts

Here's another one I see too many times. You get an SLSA like a Flight Design that has checklist provided by the Mfg under ASTM standards. Then the mechanic writes he did the inspection under part 43 which is just a general inspection checklist that they probably really didn't use. The issue here is that the 43 list leaves out tons of things an SLSA Mfg want you to inspect so you miss half the inspection items and some will put you out of service.

Here's the big kicker and loophole in the FAA regs. The FAA says if the mechanic used part 43 list then he is in the clear (that sucks for the owner), but the owner/operator may have an un-airworthy aircraft that he really shouldn't be flying. The FAA says the owner must comply with the Mfg's list of inspection items, but lets the mechanic off. They are working on trying to fix this. The FAA gave me several examples of mechanics that said they used Part 43, but the owner got in trouble because he was flying an un-airworthy aircraft. Your only recourse here would be to sew the mechanic.

 

Documentation here would save your rump.

 

p.s.

Don't write that you inspected an SLSA under part 43. Use the right checklist.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Roger Lee said:

Just under part 91. 207d..

Check for operation, check for battery corrosion, function with an impact, remote activation from the panel and battery expiration. I turn on my handheld radio to 121.5 to test.

The remote battery is not a required check per 91.207 (d), but it is something that needs to be checked. I have found countlees that have not been replaced in both standard category and LSA aircraft. The forth required check for the ELT is signal strength. The procedure to check the signal strength is in the ELT maintenance manual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No I don't. Don't really know anyone who does nor have I ever seen it in the logbook as such. I have looked at a lot of them and unless you pour dirt down in the fuel tanks i have never seen anything worth worrying about at 100 hrs.

 

While on the subject of filters. The last few CTLSi's that have come have all had mangled gascolator filters. I begining to think the mess is too small to allow the quanityy of fuel to pass so the filter just gets all crumpled up. If any of you mechanics out there want to check and report back on your CTLSi's it could help.

 

p.s.

One way to pump a 912iS engine out of fuel to inspect the gascolator or pull the wings is to unscrew the fuel supply at the right side fuel rail and point that hose into your 5 gal. jug funnel. Put a battery charger on and turn the fuel pumps on. Fuels out in no time or you could let it drain out the gascolator drain and grow old while watching.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Roger Lee said:

No I don't. Don't really know anyone who does nor have I ever seen it in the logbook as such. I have looked at a lot of them and unless you pour dirt down in the fuel tanks i have never seen anything worth worrying about at 100 hrs.  

I do. The maintenance manual say to inspect for contamination inside the filter, and the fuel filter is on the checklist.

How do you document that you didn't follow the maintenance manual on that inspection item?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because it's every 200 hours.

This is for the CTSW. It isn't in a CTLS checklist.

Fuel Filter. Change fuel filter behind lower instrument panel at least every 200 hrs. 

This change comment was accidentally left in from the old plastic filter days. Just inspect the new metal re-usable filter.

Fuel Flow Rate. Check fuel flow rate to be correct every 100 hrs. Compare value with previous value. In case of significant variations or too little flow refer to Paragraph 6 of the Maintenance Manual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I mis reading the MM? Here is what it says.

Inspect for:

1. Leaks at joint of the connector (Fuel Filter 5/16’’, Fig. 5, unit 1) and hose (Fuel tube DIN 73379,

7.5x13.0). Tighten the clamp Fig. 5, unit 2), if necessary;

2. Filter body integrity.

3. Foreign objects inside the filter.

The filter must be replaced latest every 200h, or earlier on condition.

How do you inspect for foreign objects in the filter without opening it up?

http://flightdesign.com/files/Service Bulletin/SB-ASTM-CT2k-04_01.PDF

2.4 indicates that the filter was to be inspected at the 100 hour inspection, and the annual inspection contains all of the 100 hour inspection items.

2.7 Says that maintenance intervals are as required in the MM.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 It's 200 hrs.according to the CTSW checklist.

The MM is referencing the old plastic filter in that passage you are referring to. It also says it must be replaced every 200 hrs., but we know that isn't so to. There have been changes over the last 17 years with FD MM and bulletins and some have not been updated to reflect more accurate specs through the changing years. 

If you take some of these German to US translations too literally you will have to remove all fire sleeve off hoses to to look for cracks and problems not outwardly visible. Some common since has to be applied.

 

If you want to pull that metal filter behind the panel at 100 hrs. then by all means. I would consider that the next step up, but over the last 13 years I haven't seen once where it needed to be done at 100 hrs. so I'll stick to the 200 hr. designation on the checklist. The checklist doesn't reference that old section in the MM either.

If you want to take that section you pointed out literally then you will need to throw that metal filter away and replace it every 200 hrs. In that section you quoted it doesn't give a time for the inspection. It just says look for debris, but not a time. So why not look for debris at 200 hrs as it states on the checklist.

 

The problem becomes how literal do you want to be and if you take it to an extreme then you would need to defend taking all these things in the MM that has older specs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roger, You say the MM was written for the plastic filters, back before the metal filters did you inspect the plastic filter annually like spelled out in the MM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roger, back before the metal filters would you have replaced this at a condition inspection, or would you have let it go to 200 hours?

5af0feeb8c462_CTSWplasticfuelfilter_thumb_jpg_79b9148f394042b2d9e3d74db8940c6e.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would have been gone and I would have put a metal filter in even if FD hadn't made the change. Safety first. When you placed these plastic filter in ethanol fuel they would soften up. The guys using 100LL or straight 91 oct. never knew the difference. My other issue with the=is old filter is its restriction on fuel because of its orifice size. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

Roger, You say the MM was written for the plastic filters, back before the metal filters did you inspect the plastic filter annually like spelled out in the MM?

I did, but they were easy to see through. I also move them all now from down in the bottom to upstream of the metal 120 degree  tube. If you make things too hard to check nobody will do it. That's just human nature. Put it some place where it's easy and people will check it.  Over all these years I have never seen a CT fuel filter that was anywhere near clogged. Usually just some fuzz and occasionally a little more. FD used to have in the manuals to pull the wings every 100 hrs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Roger Lee said:

Because it's every 200 hours.

This is for the CTSW. It isn't in a CTLS checklist.

It is also in the CTLS list. As is the 200 hours.

3.9 item 13 on the checklist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Doug G. said:

It is also in the CTLS list. As is the 200 hours.

3.9 item 13 on the checklist

That's because they used the same checklist and put it in the CTLS MM. All they did was call it the CTLS checklist. They never even used the plastic filters in the LS and low and behold the same picture of that plastic filter is in the LS manual. Who would have thunk. :)

You have to change with the times even if the manual never was updated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Roger Lee said:

That's because they used the same checklist and put it in the CTLS MM. All they did was call it the CTLS checklist. They never even used the plastic filters in the LS and low and behold the same picture of that plastic filter is in the LS manual. Who would have thunk. :)

You have to change with the times even if the manual never was updated.

Roger, they did use the plastic filters in the LS. Production for the LS started in late 2007 with the first airplanes coming in 2008. The original issue of the SB was 08 June, 2009. I had to replace the filter on my CTLS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Doug G. said:

It is also in the CTLS list. As is the 200 hours.

3.9 item 13 on the checklist

Doug, the fuel filter is an inspection item on the checklist. As for all inspection items on the checklist you need to refer to the MM for the details of the inspection. Here is what the checklist says and the section of the MM for the inspection. Notice that the 200h change requirement comes from the MM, and it is not part of the actual inspection.

Fuel Filter. Change fuel filter behind lower instrument panel at least every 200 hrs.

Inspect for:

1. Leaks at joint of the connector (Fuel Filter 5/16’’, Fig. 5, unit 1) and hose (Fuel tube DIN 73379,

7.5x13.0). Tighten the clamp Fig. 5, unit 2), if necessary;

2. Filter body integrity.

3. Foreign objects inside the filter.

The filter must be replaced latest every 200h, or earlier on condition.

Items 1-3 are the required inspection that should be performed at the 100hr/annual per the inspection checklist. The 200 hour requirement was for the replacement of the plastic filter element, and not necessarily an inspection item. The filter replacement requirement is included in the checklist as a note to go along with the inspection requirements from the MM.

The SB includes instructions for maintenance of the new metal filter, and it says maintenance intervals are the same as required by your maintenance manual. So the requirement of 1-3 of the inspection are still required with the metal filter. The only thing that changed was the requirement for replacement of the filter every 200 hours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Roger Lee said:

Because it's every 200 hours.

This is for the CTSW. It isn't in a CTLS checklist.

Fuel Filter. Change fuel filter behind lower instrument panel at least every 200 hrs. 

This change comment was accidentally left in from the old plastic filter days. Just inspect the new metal re-usable filter.

Fuel Flow Rate. Check fuel flow rate to be correct every 100 hrs. Compare value with previous value. In case of significant variations or too little flow refer to Paragraph 6 of the Maintenance Manual.

The change the fuel filter comment being left in the MM doesn't relieve you from the required inspection of the fuel filter as part of the 100hr/annual inspection checklist. The inspection requirements for the CTSW are found in the MM at 6.8.3. The inspection requirements are the same as the CTLS.

I agree that you should just inspect the new metal re-useable fuel filter. In my opinion it should be done per the checklist at the 100hr/ annual schedule.

How did the requirement to change the plastic filter every 200 hours get twisted into inspecting the metal filter every 200 hours?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never have I seen or heard of an LS with the plastic filter.

 

It's on the checklist. Just a loophole that FD missed between MM and checklist changes and proofreading their own material. I still personally know of no one that opens that filter every 100 hrs.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Roger Lee said:

That's because they used the same checklist and put it in the CTLS MM. All they did was call it the CTLS checklist. They never even used the plastic filters in the LS and low and behold the same picture of that plastic filter is in the LS manual. Who would have thunk. :)

You have to change with the times even if the manual never was updated.

My very simple point was that it is in the CTLS checklist. Earlier you said that it wasn't. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Roger Lee said:

Never have I seen or heard of an LS with the plastic filter.

 

It's on the checklist. Just a loophole that FD missed between MM and checklist changes and proofreading their own material. I still personally know of no one that opens that filter every 100 hrs.

 

My CTLS was F08-06-11. I took delivery in February 2009, and changed the filter out in June following the issue of the SB.

Yes, it is on the checklist. It is not just a loophole that someone missed. The filter has always required the inspection of items 1-3 in the MM when performing an inspection. The change to the metal filter did not relieve that requirement. All it did was remover the requirement for replacement of the filter every 200 hours.

I do open the filter at every inspection, just as spelled out in the MM and SB for the fuel filter exchange.

I'm not sure how you got from the inspection of the plastic filter required by the MM and it needing replaced at 200 hours, to the metal filter only needing be inspected every 200 hours. I certainly wouldn't want to have to defend that position in court.

Just because you have never seen anything in the filter is no reason to omit it from the checklist. If I were to omit things I have never seen I could cut the time for a condition inspection in half.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So long as it's on the checklist at 200 hrs. I'm good with that.

Since many here don't see eye to eye then it isn't spelled out clearly and it should be FD that sends or prints out a revision to the maintenance and mechanic's checklist that he/she is supposed to follow.

23 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

Just because you have never seen anything in the filter is no reason to omit it from the checklist

It's not being omitted. It's you check at 100 and I check at 200 and most rarely check it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Roger Lee said:

So long as it's on the checklist at 200 hrs. I'm good with that.

Since many here don't see eye to eye then it isn't spelled out clearly and it should be FD that sends or prints out a revision to the maintenance and mechanic's checklist that he/she is supposed to follow.

It's not being omitted. It's you check at 100 and I check at 200 and most rarely check it. 

I would be good with 200 hours if it in fact said to inspect at 200 hours, but that is not what it says. The fuel filter has check boxes for the 100hr and annual inspections. The MM has an inspection procedure. The SB in 2.4 tells you to gain access to the fuel filter, "just like is done in every 100 hour inspection". To me that implies that the filter is to be inspected every 100 hours, and the annual checklist includes all of the 100 hour items. In 2.7 from the SB it says "Maintenance of the new filter are as required by the maintenance manual for the initial fuel filter with the plastic housing.". It also provides instructions for performing the internal inspection of the filter for contamination. Those two references from the SB indicate to me that the filter is to be inspected as part of the 100hr/annual inspection.

I challenge to provide 1 shred of Flight Design documentation that says the inspection required by the MM is every 200 hours.

http://flightdesign.com/files/Service Bulletin/SB-ASTM-CT2k-04_01.PDF  I included a link to the SB to make it easy to look up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

I would be good with 200 hours if it in fact said to inspect at 200 hours, but that is not what it says. The fuel filter has check boxes for the 100hr and annual inspections. The MM has an inspection procedure. The SB in 2.4 tells you to gain access to the fuel filter, "just like is done in every 100 hour inspection". To me that implies that the filter is to be inspected every 100 hours, and the annual checklist includes all of the 100 hour items. In 2.7 from the SB it says "Maintenance of the new filter are as required by the maintenance manual for the initial fuel filter with the plastic housing.". It also provides instructions for performing the internal inspection of the filter for contamination. Those two references from the SB indicate to me that the filter is to be inspected as part of the 100hr/annual inspection.

I challenge to provide 1 shred of Flight Design documentation that says the inspection required by the MM is every 200 hours.

http://flightdesign.com/files/Service Bulletin/SB-ASTM-CT2k-04_01.PDF  I included a link to the SB to make it easy to look up.

Tom, I am trying to understand how you are making this decision. 

Isn't there a 100hr./annual checkbox for the wing pull/inspection? Do you go by that, or is that every 600 hours? Or, do you only check to see that it has been done less than 600 hours ago?

The MM says every 200 hours next to those checkboxes for the filter, right? Why is that number there?

Do you replace the metal filter at 200 hours?

Thanks, Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Doug G. said:

Tom, I am trying to understand how you are making this decision. 

Isn't there a 100hr./annual checkbox for the wing pull/inspection? Do you go by that, or is that every 600 hours? Or, do you only check to see that it has been done less than 600 hours ago?

The MM says every 200 hours next to those checkboxes for the filter, right? Why is that number there?

Do you replace the metal filter at 200 hours?

Thanks, Doug

For any item on the checklist it is a requirement to check something. It may be as simple as checking compliance, or there may be an inspection spelled out in the MM. The notes within the checklist are there to guide you along the way. However you need to look at more than just the checklist. You also need to look at the text in the MM. That is where you really find out what you need to inspect.

For the wing I check the log books and see if it was done last year or has accumulated 600 hours since the last inspection. If it has been more that 600 hours or 2 years I do the inspection. I then mark off the appropriate box.

For the fuel filter the 200 hour requirement noted in the checklist was for replacement of a life limited part not the inspection. The inspections required is in the MM under 6.7.3, and it still applies. The SB changes the requirement for replacement every 200 hour, but it does not remove the requirement for the inspection. That is spelled out in the SB.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another data point:

I replaced my plastic fuel filter at about 200hrs with metal.  Since I have followed the checklist, which says inspect at 200hr.  I just finished my annual and inspected it, and there were a few sand-like grains in it, and one black fleck like paint maybe 1mm across.  I do not pre-filter my mogas like some do.

With this level of fouling, the filter i.s probably good for 500-1000 hours, but of counse one wants to be conservative.  I think 200hr inspections are a good balance between being often enough to catch problems, and not too often to make maintenance induced failures more likely.

I’m not making any statements on what’s legal for SLSA.  I fly an ELSA, so my burden is just to certify the airplane is in condition for safe operation.  I encourage the SLSA drivers to get the definitive answer from FDUSA om this, since it seems there’s confusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×