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David Ober

New Pilot - Jumping Left on Takeoff

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34 minutes ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

To compensate for yaw forces experienced on take off and to otherwise keep the pesky ball in its cage when maneuvering.

Well . . . okay . . . but it sounds to me like you are intending on just staying "in trim."

Anything "beyond the trim" would be an out of trim condition, right?

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38 minutes ago, WmInce said:

Well . . . okay . . . but it sounds to me like you are intending on just staying "in trim."

Anything "beyond the trim" would be an out of trim condition, right?

maybe my way of talking,, pitch is easy, trim for speed, to go beyond that push the stick, let go to return.

what is 'trim condition' for the rudder?  I say the rudder is the fixer that puts or keeps your nose into the wind and needs different setting for each change in flight condition some large enough to trim for.

I trim my flaperons once, rudder infrequently and pitch all the time

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for this thread,  if you never trim your rudder you can know how much right rudder will be needed but if you do trim the fact that there is no indicator makes the amount of right rudder on take-off a mystery because it is changed by the trim setting

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26 minutes ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

maybe my way of talking,, pitch is easy, trim for speed, to go beyond that push the stick, let go to return.what is 'trim condition' for the rudder?  I say the rudder is the fixer that puts or keeps your nose into the wind and needs different setting for each change in flight condition some large enough to trim for.

I  trim my flaperons once, rudder infrequently and pitch all the time

---------------------------------

for this thread,  if you never trim your rudder you can know how much right rudder will be needed but if you do trim the fact that there is no indicator makes the amount of right rudder on take-off a mystery because it is changed by the trim setting

Reminds me of Abbott and Costello's, "Who's on first." . . :D

Whatever, Ed.

We must be talking about the same thing . . but maybe not . . again.

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25 minutes ago, WmInce said:

Reminds me of Abbott and Costello's, "Who's on first." . . :D

Whatever, Ed.

We must be talking about the same thing . . but maybe not . . again.

I'm not sure either.

let me take another stab at it.  

trim is used to relieve control input pressure and is not generally used for short term conditions.  My CT has light stick forces and turns steeply so I would never trim nose up for a turn, not worth it.

take-offs in a CT are similar, if you can set trim ahead of take off roll you trim for the climb not the earlier portions there you use right rudder beyond the trim set for climb.

:)  how'd i do?

 

my initial point was that I seldom know how far past the trim setting I will have to deflect the rudder because I don't know where I left the trim from the last flight

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1 hour ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

:)  how'd i do?

my initial point was that I seldom know how far past the trim setting I will have to deflect the rudder because I don't know where I left the trim from the last flight

Fine.

Thank you for following that up. That last point nails it.

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Excellent skills for 9 hours, congrats !

  Congrats also for that nice cockpit. God Bless pilot and airplane.

Now that everybody agree on more rudder, you may want to know why. Major reason is your propeller. Yes, should your propeller rotate opposite direction, your jump would be to the right. 

I understand you got your training in a SportCruiser. Although low wing and high wing require different rudder inputs, you must have had at least some of this leftward tendency at takeoff and throttle inputs in your previous aircraft, unless your instructor was taking care of that effect.

Many literature on the internet offer details on this topic. The one here explains not only one reason but four:

http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/aerodynamics/why-you-need-right-rudder-on-takeoff-to-stay-on-centerline/

 

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