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David Ober

New Pilot - Jumping Left on Takeoff

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Hi,

I'm a new pilot with only 9 hrs in my CTLS.  On my last few takeoffs, I have notice that I am "jumping left" immediately after leaving the ground.  I am trying to figure out how to improve on this and I am thinking about the following factors:

Is it because I am solo?

Is it because of the 15 degree flaps?

Do I need to adjust the Aileron Trim?

On both occasions, winds were fairly calm.

Thanks for any feedback.

Takeoff Video

David Ober

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You are not using enough right rudder, and then trying to correct by using right aileron. This is giving you a double whammy. The right aileron adds even more drag on the left side of the airplane.

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(Caveat: I have even less time in the CT than you do) 

Right rudder. Tom spent most of his day Friday telling me the same thing. Lol. 

I was really surprised how much rudder the CT requires. I didn't expect that from a 100 HP aircraft. 

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Thanks guys....seems to be a consensus.  I will put a post-it saying "More Right Rudder!° on the dash...I did my training in a SportsCruiser and I guess I got lazy as it didnt seem as rudder reliant.

I will practice this the next time out.

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40 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

You are not using enough right rudder, and then trying to correct by using right aileron. This is giving you a double whammy. The right aileron adds even more drag on the left side of the airplane.

Looks like you taught me well 

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8 hours ago, Duane Jefts said:

Yup, More right rudder.

 

Most common phrase in aviation.  Ever.    B)

 

It is the case sometimes that as you break ground you might need to increase the amount of rudder you have in.  As the wheels lose contact with the ground, they are no longer helping to maintain directional control, and you are purely at the mercy of aerodynamics.  At that point the airplane might seem to "suddenly" nose off to the left...but in reality you have too little rudder in, and just need to adjust.

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Moving from the typical legacy aircraft in my training, I was surprised at how much rudder the CT needs with power adjustments.  In addition to right rudder at high power settings, you'll probably find that you need significant left rudder when pulling power, such as when closing throttle abeam the numbers in the pattern, or even during descents.

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It looks like everyone agrees. In your video you can see that you move the stick to the right when you drift off the centerline. Moving the stick just aggravates the problem instead of helping. When I have a student that is doing what you are doing I will sometimes block the stick so they can't move it to the side. When working in the pattern, especially in smooth air, over movement of the control stick creates more problem than it solves. One thing I tell my students who are fighting the airplane around the pattern is, "a quiet stick makes for a happy airplane".

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23 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said:

In your defense, in the video you do stomp the rudder pretty hard when the yaw occurs.  You just need to stomp harder-er.  :)

Watching the pedals on the right side I don't see much movement.

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This is all good feedback.  You cant really see the right pedals move...I have noticed this on other videos also.  Honestly, most of my rudder application is focused on steering the nose wheel.  Next time out, I will concentrate on pulling straight back and stomping right rudder as I leave the ground and will post the results.  

Proper rudder execution and too fast on landings are my focal points right now.  These seem to be common themes for new CT pilots.

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10 minutes ago, David Ober said:

Next time out, I will concentrate on pulling straight back and stomping right rudder as I leave the ground and will post the results. 

Don't stomp right rudder as you leave the ground, apply with the throttle.  When the throttle goes forward, apply right rudder, whether on the ground, when going from cruise to full throttle climb, etc.  Conversely, when you pull throttle, you'll need some left rudder.

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12 minutes ago, David Ober said:

This is all good feedback.  You cant really see the right pedals move...I have noticed this on other videos also.  Honestly, most of my rudder application is focused on steering the nose wheel.  Next time out, I will concentrate on pulling straight back and stomping right rudder as I leave the ground and will post the results.  

Proper rudder execution and too fast on landings are my focal points right now.  These seem to be common themes for new CT pilots.

For landings, come in pitched for about 60kts with zero power in, 15 degree flaps.  If trimmed properly this is basically hands off the stick.  

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37 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

Watching the pedals on the right side I don't see much movement.

I saw his left leg come up and can see the left pedal deflected up, which all happens right as the nose moves.  In any case, more needed.

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8 minutes ago, JLang said:

Don't stomp right rudder as you leave the ground, apply with the throttle.  When the throttle goes forward, apply right rudder, whether on the ground, when going from cruise to full throttle climb, etc.  Conversely, when you pull throttle, you'll need some left rudder.

This is good advice.  "Stomp" was a poor descriptive on my part.  Smooth is always better.

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18 hours ago, splanchnic said:

(Caveat: I have even less time in the CT than you do) 

Right rudder. Tom spent most of his day Friday telling me the same thing. Lol. 

I was really surprised how much rudder the CT requires. I didn't expect that from a 100 HP aircraft. 

Trim plays a big part.  The only trim indicator I have is pitch, I take off with unknown rudder and flaperon trim.  When I take off and no one cares I will allow it to roll and yaw at first to know how much right rudder and how much stick to counter flaperon trim.

Its not your fault, at least if you trim for descents and trim your flaperons.

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Like has been said Rudder needs to be applied as you start to apply power. There are 2 ways an airplane will drift off the centerline. one os because of a crosswind, and for that you need aileron to maintain your position. The other is lack of directional control, in which you longitudinal axis does not stay aligned with the runway. In your case the later is what happened. Use the rudder to keep the axis aligned with and the airplane on the centerline. In other words apply the rudder to keep the airplane on the centerline, instead of letting drift off to the left.

What you have happening is not uncommon, and I have seen it with other students.

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Besides applying right rudder during the power increase to stay aligned with the runway centerline . . . at rotation (aft stick being applied) . . . "feed-in" enough right rudder to keep the aircraft from veering left. That is practically an art form.

As with all control inputs, how much rudder input should you apply?

Answer:  "Whatever it takes!" . . . (to get the job done).

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29 minutes ago, procharger said:

rudder  trim??

without an indicator to know the current setting, I don't know how much rudder pedal I need beyond the trim.  every takeoff is a surprise.

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6 minutes ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

without an indicator to know the current setting, I don't know how much rudder pedal I need beyond the trim.

Huh? Why go beyond trim?

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14 minutes ago, WmInce said:

Huh? Why go beyond trim?

To compensate for yaw forces experienced on take off and to otherwise keep the pesky ball in its cage when maneuvering.

 

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