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KentWien

Airventure 2018

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Anyone make it to Oshkosh this year?

I hadn’t been since 2002 and wow, it’s changed! For the better. The night airshow is spectacular. 

Flying in was surprisingly easy with plenty of spots available. Leaving Monday morning. New York to Seattle via Oshkosh.

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We were on the grounds the first Sunday and the arrival situation was a giant mess.  Glad you were able to avoid that situation.

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Pilot on another forum posted a video of his 3 hour hold over Green Lake.  To say it was a “giant mess” is no understatement.  There’s no way to keep your head on a swivel with that much traffic flying around.  Wow.

 

 

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I flew in Sunday afternoon, and confirm it was a madhouse. I had a good look at the bottom of a CTLS without wheel pants that flew right over the top of me when getting the left turn out ar FISK. He wasn't much more than 100 above me. 

I was lucky, I got to go to the airport my second time arriving at FISK.

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3 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

...I had a good look at the bottom of a CTLS without wheel pants that flew right over the top of me when getting the left turn out ar FISK. He wasn't much more than 100 above me...

😲

Holy moly, Tom!  Glad nothing came of that event.  But that kind of lack of separation by ATC really puts me off from wanting to fly into OSH.  Yeah, it's something I'd like to do, but not at my own peril.

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This year was by far the worst arrival at Oshkosh I have ever witnessed. It was kind of a perfect storm. The weather leading up to arrival day was bad, and on Sunday they were IFR until about 1 o'clock. When the field went VFR you had a couple days of airplanes all trying to get in at once. Pilots were not following NOTAM procedures.

I had a green and white Cessna 172 pass off my right wing just as I was arriving at FISK the first time. You are not supposed to pass.

Pilots are flying GPS from RIPON to FISK instead of following the railroad tracks as called out in the NOTAM. This puts you to the Right of where you should be.

Pilots were not maintaining the 1/2 mile spacing as called out in the NOTAM, and the controllers couldn't handle it.

The controllers share some blame too. They were not handling the flow of traffic very well either. The controllers at FISK were saying the tower couldn't handle the traffic, but people at the airport said the flow of airplanes was much slower than normal.

I also heard rumors that the controllers union stepped in to the Oshkosh controller selection process. This would explain the inexperience and panic that could be heard in the controllers voices. The controllers at FISK were trying to get the pilots to create twice, and later 4 times the spacing for arriving aircraft than what is called for in the NOTAM.

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7 hours ago, rtk said:

😲

Holy moly, Tom!  Glad nothing came of that event.  But that kind of lack of separation by ATC really puts me off from wanting to fly into OSH.  Yeah, it's something I'd like to do, but not at my own peril.

The point where the bottleneck was ATC is not controlling. The controllers at FISK are just one point of entry for traffic coming into the airport. There are other arrival procedures going on from other points. The controllers at FISK are the ones who clear you into the class D airspace for the airport. Prior to that you are in class E airspace and on your own for separation.

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You may want to consider flying into Fon Du Lac as it is much less congested and I hear they have a daily bus TO and FROM Osh.  We actually flew into West Bend, WI and rented a car for only $180 for the entire week. Here we are in West Bend getting ready to return home on Saturday.  Notice there is nobody here.

thumbnail (36).jpg

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Oh wow. 

You just can’t imagine how easy it was on Saturday. There was radio silence for 5 minutes at a time with no arrivals at noon. Crowds were light and on Sunday, I could see the expo buildings and visit anyone without 6-deep crowds of people. 

I think i lucked out. A perfect two-day visit during our NY to Seattle adventure.

Kent

 

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21 hours ago, DJ Todd B said:

You may want to consider flying into Fon Du Lac as it is much less congested and I hear they have a daily bus TO and FROM Osh.  We actually flew into West Bend, WI and rented a car for only $180 for the entire week. Here we are in West Bend getting ready to return home on Saturday.  Notice there is nobody here.

 

Flying into one of the other airports is a good option. If I hadn't been flying an airplane that we wanted to display, 1941 Taylorcraft, we probably would have wound up at Fon Du Lac.

Back in the day we used to stay at a motel Fon Du Lac for our Oshkosh adventure. We would fly into Fon Du Lac and stay the first night, then get up and fly the NORDO approach into Oshkosh. The night before our departure home we would relocate back to Fon Du Lac after the airshow.

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On 7/29/2018 at 11:22 PM, Ben2k9 said:

Can’t believe there wasn’t a collision yet 

It's a lot of airplanes, but they are not to scale on the linked map.  The sky is a big place, and if most pilots are vigilant and follow the procedures the chances of a collision are small.  The real hazard comes when some knucklehead decides to fly the hold in the wrong direction, or something similarly bone-headed.

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1 hour ago, FlyingMonkey said:

It's a lot of airplanes, but they are not to scale on the linked map.  The sky is a big place, and if most pilots are vigilant and follow the procedures the chances of a collision are small.  The real hazard comes when some knucklehead decides to fly the hold in the wrong direction, or something similarly bone-headed.

Andy, if you were there Sunday afternoon you might have a different take on most following the procedures. There was lots of butting in line, and not maintaining proper separation. The biggest issue I have seen is people relying to much on the GPS. The FISK arrival has been in place as long as I can remember, at least since my first flight to Oshkosh in 1988. You are supposed to follow the railroad tracks, but now people program it into their GPS flying waypoint to waypoint. This creates 2 lines of traffic. One for those following the NOTAM, and one for those following the GPS. 

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43 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

Andy, if you were there Sunday afternoon you might have a different take on most following the procedures. There was lots of butting in line, and not maintaining proper separation. The biggest issue I have seen is people relying to much on the GPS. The FISK arrival has been in place as long as I can remember, at least since my first flight to Oshkosh in 1988. You are supposed to follow the railroad tracks, but now people program it into their GPS flying waypoint to waypoint. This creates 2 lines of traffic. One for those following the NOTAM, and one for those following the GPS. 

I get it.  I was just saying that IF everybody follows procedures and common sense (huge if!), these things can go well, even with a lot of airplanes in the sky.  With knuckleheads, even two airplanes in the same area is too many.  I have almost been broadsided when another airplane didn't follow an established arrival procedure.  And when I flew into OSH, there were definitely airplanes that were offset from the tracks, almost certainly driving by GPS.

My only point was that it's not the number of airplanes that's a hazard, so much as the zombies flying them.   ☠️

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So, the plane arrives from Germany in October.  I should have my Flight Review done by September, which means my PPL, earned in 1978, will become active again... Did earn my tailwheel endorsement in a Piper Cub a month ago... and transitioning into a Kappa shortly for more hours/X country/ ATC practice, etc...

My goal is to fly to OSH 2019 from SE Connecticut... which will force me to gain good training skills between Oct and this next Summer.  I am an early bird when I travel so getting there early without all the hubbub, i.e. Saturday is probably what I will plan for.  One question please, can people ride small electric scooters (the only thing that will fit in a CT I think without dominating the entire front seat) all over the grounds?  I do know people rent bikes, but I never see bikes in any of the videos... other than the scooters the Volunteers bomb around on...

Oh, sorry … two questions,,, is there a FD gathering like the Cessna's... blah?

Thanks, Andrew

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