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CT2K

Brake stuck

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9 hours ago, CT2K said:

Still looking for a source to gent these pads.

does the wheel have to come out in order to access the pads?

No. Just unscrew the two screws that hold the pads in place. There is a spring to put back in. I use a very thin needle-nose pliers to hold the spring to slide the screw back in place. Many I have just removed the spring all together. The spring keeps pushing the pads away from the rotor. So as the pads wear you may end up pumping the brakes to get them solid. This is what happened many years ago in 2006 - 2008. In Jan. 2009 FD went with Matco brakes. Most here have converted over to Matco's. Even worldwide people have converted.

 

Instead of trying to measure how thick for wear just use a dime. When they get down to a dime thickness time to toss them. These pads are glued on so they can be worn thinner to the metal since there are no rivets to score your rotors. The Matco's have a witness mark. Once that one disappears it's time to replace the pads. Those I buy the pads and re-shoe them myself. It only takes a few minutes or you can buy the Swift Re-Line Kit already set to install..

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Thanks a lot for those interesting details.

When you suggest to «unscrew the two screws that hold the pads in place», are these two screws visible on the pictures I uploaded?

Today I was with another fellow pilot talking next my CT and I understood from him that all I need would be a screw driver to insert between the pad and the rotor and push the pad back until there is enough space for the new and thicker pads to get in, the old pads would drop by itself and I would be able  to put the new pads in place and that would be it. Is this another correct approach?

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CT2K,

To my eye it looks like your “1 cent” coin (1/100 of a Euro) is about the same thickness as the "dime" (1/10 of a US dollar) Roger referred too.

If you have the option, you might consider changing to Matco brakes. My plane had had Marc brakes originally. Matco brakes stop the plane more effectively, they don’t drag or get stuck, and you don’t have to pump the handle multiple times to actuate them. In my opinion they are a much better design.

Mike Koerner

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7 hours ago, Mike Koerner said:

CT2K,

To my eye it looks like your “1 cent” coin (1/100 of a Euro) is about the same thickness as the "dime" (1/10 of a US dollar) Roger referred too.

If you have the option, you might consider changing to Matco brakes. My plane had had Marc brakes originally. Matco brakes stop the plane more effectively, they don’t drag or get stuck, and you don’t have to pump the handle multiple times to actuate them. In my opinion they are a much better design.

Mike Koerner

Mike, when I worked the booth at Oshkosh and on the forums I have heard of several instances of the Matco brakes getting stuck due to worn brake pads. This thread is the first I have heard of the Marc brakes getting stuck. In over 1,000 hours of operation between 2 different aircraft I never experienced a sticking brake with the Marcs.

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I've seen both get stuck and it has always been because someone let the pads get too thin, the piston comes out too far and gets cocked to one side slightly and won't retract to reduce the caliper pressure. using a flat tip screwdriver and correct this to get the piston back in, but the plane shouldn't be flown again until the pads are replaced.

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I checked my logbook. The incident where one side locked up on landing was after I had changed to the Matco brakes. I also see that I changed the pads shortly thereafter.

I still think the Matco brakes are far superior. They stop the plane much faster. Also, with the Marc brakes I sometimes had to pump the brake handle to get them to actuate. One time at a charity flight event the lineman signaled for me to pull right up to him then crossed his wands for me to stop. He has no idea how close he came to becoming minced meat.

Mike Koerner

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The difference with the Matco's is if you stuck them that usually means you're down into the rivets and failed to ever check them for the witness mark. The Marc's are glued on and have no rivets. To check the Matco's just lay down behind the main wheel to the rear. take a flashlight and look up towards the brake pads. The witness mark and pad thickness is easy to see.

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Abiding by the advice and not flying my machine any more since it got severly stuck. Still unable to know which screws to unscrew to get the pads out. Would someone be able to look at those pictures again and and circle the screws or highlight them in some way, please ?

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Don't just take the pads out and replace. Remove the wheel and disassemble everything. Clean it all and repack the wheel bearings. Replace the pads and reassemble.

 

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17 minutes ago, Roger Lee said:

I would do like Al suggested. Pull all this off and clean everything and grease the bearings.

The Marcs have sealed bearings, no need to grease. If they are bad you just replace them.

A third vote for removing the wheel. Clean the guide pins and holes on the disk. With the wheel removed you can take the disk off, and the screws that you need to remove to get the pads out will be evident.

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Sourds silly question (I am sure you will confirm): how many pads are there per wheel? Logic would say 2, but looking closer down I am less  sure

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If they have to be one on each side of the disk there would be a little problem given the disk is fixed to the rim with those four scews

 you see on the picture on the outside of the disk. Weird, hein?

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The disk is supposed to move on the 4 pins. The caliper is attached solid. That is why I said earlier that if the disk is stuck on the pins it can cause the brake to feel stuck.

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It seems that the best way for you to understand the way it  works is for you to disassemble it all and get the complete picture. It  is not difficult and will be easy to understand. I question why you are not having an A&P do this for you. If you don't understand the mechanics you may cause yourself a pick problem.

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From what I noticed our A&Ps care for certified aircraft and are not queen on looking at ultralights. I will be more than glad if I can find one A&P who would be nice enough to check my pads. Will let you know.

Thanks to all of you for your valuable contributions, Gentlemen.

Kind Regards.

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I hope you’re all well. A Quick update to this thread: ended up removing the wheel as suggested by you guys and it was by far the best option to access everything easily. The brake pad was quitte thin at one end and the piston  was stuck. Replaced the pads. Can upload pics if that can help someone else.

Now I am going to put the wheel back and refill brake fluid. Any recommendation on fluid grade (DOT3, DOT4, DOT5), please ? My CT2K is from 2003.

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Quick question. Why did you disconnect the brake line and loose your fluid if you just replaced the pads?

All other CT's use the red 5606 brake fluid. Unless you know different on yours using a DOT fluid will eat the brake lines and rubber parts inside the master cylinder.

If you need help before you flush the system give me a call for an easy guide.

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Hi Roger Lee. Many thanks for your prompt reply and for offering to guide me by phone.

-Why did you disconnect the brake line and loose your fluid if you just replaced the pads?

—Because I removed the wheel and took it to a friend’s place who has the right tools to release the piston.

-All other CT's use the red 5606 brake fluid. Unless you know different on yours using a DOT fluid will eat the brake lines and rubber parts inside the master cylinder.—Didn’t know about 5606 and didn’t know DOT fluid would damage rubber parts of the piston. DOT is the only fluid I know. Any link to 5606, please?

 -If you need help before you flush the system give me a call for an easy guide

— I very much appreciate your kind thought. I guess it won’t be easy given the time difference as I am in France. Yeah I know, nobody is perfect :)

 

Again thanks for your valuable help.

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The maintenance manual specifies the fluid you should use. In this case, even the AOI/POH might specify.

GA doesn't use DOT except for edge cases (very, very small section of GA). It's going to be 5606 or 87257, or their equivalent (if you live in a place that insists on using their own spec number). Both Marc and Matco use 5606. Still, RTFM, in case you have something weird.

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