New CT In The Skies Over CT (as in Connecticut)

[AGLyme]

You get my “upvote” for that story Mike  

At my local airport, the school leased a Kappa and it has become a very popular trainer.  I have a few hours in it and liked it.  I would think the CT would be a better trainer due to the superb cockpit width and ease of of entry.  

[Tom Baker]

Having used a CT as a trainer for several years I have come to the conclusion that it is a great airplane, but not so great as a trainer. That being said if you learn to fly a CT well you will not have many issues transitioning to other aircraft.

[Runtoeat]

AG, ignore the "ups and downs".  I really never really knew they were there until you mentioned them.  I'm enjoying reading your comments.  It is reassuring and enjoyable to hear from yet another person who has had no experience flying a CT describe the "ah ha" moments when the unforseen capabilities of the CT are being discovered.  This used to be a best kept secret but less and less now every time a new owner comes on board.

[AGLyme]

Tom, when I jumped in the Cub to re-start my flying career (after a 37 years sabbatical), I thought on day 1... "this is way too hard".  I persevered and I learned to utilize that thing in the back that one moves with his/her feet, it became clear that I was learning how to really "fly".  Moving into the CT was a natural because of the Cub experience, glad I did it.  In a way, landing the CT is hybrid tricycle/conventional gear from a skill set (hand/eye/feet) perspective.  Once one masters the CT Landing, the balance of the experience is superior in all respects within the 2 place class.  The Pipistrel is a great and similar product, but I found the CT's view, interior comfort and Panel far better for my liking.

Thanks Run, I feel like a baby for complaining, but, someone has to speak out about that.  I do hope the Moderators remove that down vote button not only on this Forum but in all social networking.  It is a nightmare feature for the run of the mill human race.

[Tom Baker]

26 minutes ago, AGLyme said:

Tom, when I jumped in the Cub to re-start my flying career (after a 37 years sabbatical), I thought on day 1... "this is way too hard".  I persevered and I learned to utilize that thing in the back that one moves with his/her feet, it became clear that I was learning how to really "fly".  Moving into the CT was a natural because of the Cub experience, glad I did it.  In a way, landing the CT is hybrid tricycle/conventional gear from a skill set (hand/eye/feet) perspective.  Once one masters the CT Landing, the balance of the experience is superior in all respects within the 2 place class.  The Pipistrel is a great and similar product, but I found the CT's view, interior comfort and Panel far better for my liking.

Thanks Run, I feel like a baby for complaining, but, someone has to speak out about that.  I do hope the Moderators remove that down vote button not only on this Forum but in all social networking.  It is a nightmare feature for the run of the mill human race.

I think I could teach someone to fly in a Cub in almost half the time it takes in the CT because of the complexity.

 

[Andy A]

I actually think the CTLSi is the easiest airplane I have ever flown.  Coming from a Cessna 310, it took a few hours to work out the landing, but other than that, all you do is give it the gas and go.  In my opinion, the only thing that requires any effort is keeping the ball centered.  The 310 was an easier plane to land, but I thought it was pretty easy to fly too.

[AGLyme]

Update 3:  Breezy...7-9, gusts to 14/15 today...  another trainer (C-172) in the pattern and the occasional guest airplane...a great practice session.   Wind was mostly down the runway, with a slight cross, the sock was active.   We flew at my new home airport (Chester, CT)…  Learned a ton.  We practiced 2 Go-arounds as well… and the plane took off like a rocket, it was chilly out so the air molecules were in the plane's favor.  I have a lot of confidence that Go Arounds are a cinch in this plane and to not pull that handle is dumb if the landing is iffy.  Almost 2 hours of constant T&G's... no solo today, a lot of fun however.  My regular instructor (Cub/Kapp LSA) went up too and he loved the plane, he flew it beautifully.  All good.

[WmInce]

On 12/7/2018 at 9:38 AM, Tom Baker said:

I think I could teach someone to fly in a Cub in almost half the time it takes in the CT because of the complexity.

Complexity?

Tom, please elaborate.

[Tom Baker]

The CT flies very much like a high performance airplane minus the constant speed prop. Things happen to fast for some who is learning to fly. You can bust pattern altitude by 200 feet in what seems like the blink of an eye. The CT has more yaw to control based on power needing more right rudder with power and left rudder when power is reduced. The CT has more adverse yaw issues in landing configuration, especially with the light control forces and shorter stick. The CT has flaps, and the Cub doesn't. The typical CT has more instrumentation to draw the students attention away from actually flying the airplane. In a Cub with an instructor you really can't see much of the instruments it does have. It is much easier to maintain the proper speed with a Cub because of the more narrow operating range range.

[AGLyme]

As one who flew both recently, I agree with Tom's learned assessment.  They are very different planes, night and day... save for the rudder/yaw commonality.  When landing, the Cub is an old truck, the CT is a Porsche.  Both are fun and challenging in their own way.  However, getting back into flying, and prepping for a Light Sport airplane, learning on a tailwheel is the way to go.  As Tom points out, the CT's rudder/yaw issues are very real and need to be old hat or one will struggle.  The 150/172 are great learning platforms, but the Cub (or any tailwheel plane)  is a superior learning platform than a 172 given the rudder/yaw criticality.

Tom's point about the instrumentation is also right on.  In the Cub, I gave up on looking at anything on the dash while landing.  After a short while, the noise and sight line are pretty much what I relied on because I couldn't see the ball anyway as my instructor's head was in the way...; )… The CT has everything imaginable to look at while landing including an Angle of Attack meter.  The stall warning is sensitive in the CT.  Consistent pattern speeds are achievable in the CT, but like anything else, it takes practice and concentration.  I am getting a feel for it and I find myself paying more attention to the sounds and sight line instead of constantly scanning the instruments... I do study the ball on the downwind to base, and base to final turns... it is easy to side slip if one is not careful.  My situational analysis is starting to go more outside of the CT than inside as I gain more experience.  The AoA meter is a comfort and it is right there at a quick glance.  A great invention.

[Ed Cesnalis]

1 hour ago, AGLyme said:

it is easy to side slip if one is not careful.

I don't see a downside to slipping in the pattern.  I sometimes slip starting on downwind (or sooner if dropping in from above) and then a big slipping 180 to the numbers.  Its very safe and a source of drag.

flat turns in the pattern I do avoid.

[AGLyme]

Ed, I was speaking of slipping in the turns only... an uncoordinated turn isn't "good" for stall management... generally speaking.  I try to be mindful of that.  I have only slipped on Final into the wind.  Our experience levels are worlds apart, and, your plane is 100 lbs ish lighter than mine with the same gross weight limitation.  I think your margin is more in the final analysis.

[Ed Cesnalis]

2 hours ago, AGLyme said:

Ed, I was speaking of slipping in the turns only... an uncoordinated turn isn't "good" for stall management... generally speaking.  I try to be mindful of that.  I have only slipped on Final into the wind.  Our experience levels are worlds apart, and, your plane is 100 lbs ish lighter than mine with the same gross weight limitation.  I think your margin is more in the final analysis.

I'm trying to say that  an uncoordinated turn can be very good for stall(/spin) management, in the pattern, as long as its a slip (too much bank for the radius) and not a skid (too little bank for the radius).

What do you mean when you say 'only slipped ... into the wind' ?   I don't think that has meaning because we fly and slip in the relative wind and there we remain till we land.  I guess you could do a slipping turn that moves your course into the wind for landing but that's not what you mean.  You seam to mean slipping on upwind but not downwind or even crosswind but that brings us back to the fact that we are flying in the relative wind and upwind vs downwind are no different.  Also, aerodynamically speaking there is no difference between a forward slip and a side slip.

[andyb]

3 hours ago, AGLyme said:

Ed, I was speaking of slipping in the turns only... an uncoordinated turn isn't "good" for stall management... generally speaking.  I try to be mindful of that.  I have only slipped on Final into the wind.  Our experience levels are worlds apart, and, your plane is 100 lbs ish lighter than mine with the same gross weight limitation.  I think your margin is more in the final analysis.

I think that slips in the pattern, even in turns, are doable, although disarming for passengers.  The absolute key is to avoid a skid, especially on base-to-final turns.  That's how the spins typically occur.  The thing to remember is not to pull back on the stick during the turn, and if you're uncoordinated, to be slipping (rudder opposite to the stick) rather than skidding (excess rudder in the same direction of the stick.)

 

Andy

[Leathers]

On 12/6/2018 at 7:24 AM, AGLyme said:

When someone "Down votes" I am guessing that is a bad thing?  I wish people would take the time to explain why they disagree or are uncomfortable with a post instead of hiding in the weeds... This is exactly why I am not a big Social Network guy... too many "anonymous" cowards out there.  CTFlier can be a fun and educational site... perhaps this is the reason why so few people actually post here, they get "down voted" away I guess.  Shame.

Don't worry about the "Peanut Gallery". There are plenty of new pilots, or new to the CT pilots on the site that love to share and learn. Keep up the training and posting your journey..

 

Brian

[WmInce]

On 12/13/2018 at 3:27 PM, Tom Baker said:

The CT flies very much like a high performance airplane minus the constant speed prop. Things happen to fast for some who is learning to fly. You can bust pattern altitude by 200 feet in what seems like the blink of an eye. The CT has more yaw to control based on power needing more right rudder with power and left rudder when power is reduced. The CT has more adverse yaw issues in landing configuration, especially with the light control forces and shorter stick. The CT has flaps, and the Cub doesn't. The typical CT has more instrumentation to draw the students attention away from actually flying the airplane. In a Cub with an instructor you really can't see much of the instruments it does have. It is much easier to maintain the proper speed with a Cub because of the more narrow operating range range.

Got it . . . thanks Tom.

[AGLyme]

Ed and Andy B, I stand corrected... I meant "skid"... appreciate the correction... , I never claimed I was smart  ; )... Thanks Leathers, I have a thick skin, the "anonymous" people give me the creeps.  I have attached a photo of the plane going into its hangar home for the first time, my son, who is soon to start lessons in it, grabbed my camera and took this pic.  We moved N521JW from the Dealer's hangar in Woodstock to Chester, CT. My local instructor is now checked out and he made a superb landing as it arrived.  Lots of interest in the CT, very nice people here at the Airport.  Many adventures to come !

 

. 

[cdarza]

That was me giving the down vote - Just kidding !  LOL  Love it

 

[AGLyme]

Yeah, we knew it was you the whole time...; )…

[AGLyme]

In April 1978, I solo'd for the first time @ 17 years old.  Took 36 years off from flying, and Today I solo'd again.  It was surreal.  Without the instructor the plane climbs like a rocket.  I can only imagine what a CTSW climb feels like... same engine and lots lighter.  So, this is the end of this string, I am officially transitioned and here is what I learned about the CT during my short journey thus far... this summary is for the new folks who are thinking of buying and/or taking lessons in a CT.

Compared to a C-152, a P-Cherokee 140, or, a C-172... here are my thoughts about the CT:

1. Conclusion first... love the plane, wouldn't trade it for any of the above models.

2. Visibility is superb.  The "sightline" (center of runway, etc.) is something to get used to but once discovered, it is a no-brainer.  Don't think about it anymore.

3. It really does take a new pilot like me, and possibly a veteran... about 10 hours of transition training to master the landing.  The flying and takeoffs are easy, add power and she goes !  Without an instructor and @ 15 degs of flaps... she REALLY goes.  Back to the landings... the Dealer spent countless to's and landings with me... setup and speed/vertical speed control during the pattern phase are critical for consistently good landing performance.  The above old standbys are easier to land in my opinion.  Like anything, once the learning curve is crossed, and the aha moment is reached, I realized that the rudder isn't merely attached to make the plane look cool...; )  The CT is flown with the rudder, period.  With all that said, I have to admit, I had some pretty crappy landings and the plane "fixed" the (my stupidity) problem.  Full disclosure, I have the "tundra" tires which help absorb mistakes better.

4. Comfort... way more comfortable than the aforementioned trainers... I can see spending hours on a long cross country and being comfortable.  Akin to a premium car with the "sporty" setting... but with a fascinating view, and, an autopilot.  I am looking forward to taking trips.

5. Noise.  I was told years ago that the CT's were loud inside.  Possibly due to the carbon fiber construction...?? I have noise cancelling headsets, there is no noise once the headsets are in place.  The plane is a joy to fly in with the Bose headsets.

6. The 3 screen Dynon setup is amazing.  I love the engine information, the pressures, the temps, makes me feel tons safer.  The auto pilot is a great feature.  I like seeing where the planes are, at least the Transponder equipped ones.  Again, I feel safer.

7. One fear that I had was getting bounced around in the CT.  Haven't experienced that yet in 10 hours of flying this plane, plus 2 hours in other CT's... meaning, no more so than the old standbys.  I was expecting the worst... the CT flies in spirited wind conditions... well, like the old standbys.

That's it... glad to be part of this esteemed community.  

Andrew

[coppercity]

Congrats Andrew!  Glad you are enjoying the CT.  I have almost 3000hrs in CT's now and still enjoy every minute in it!

[AGLyme]

Thanks Eric,

I can see why the plane has such a wide following.  Glad I took the plunge.  I feel fortunate to have linked up with Tom P and his maintenance chief Arian.  The delivery and training process was A+.  I now have to wrap my old as dirt head around the Dynon... I feel like I just entered College again... tons to learn.

[KentWien]

This has been a great thread. You’ve documented your discoveries well. Agree with everything youve come across while learning the plane. I love mine!

Lers meet up!

Kent

[AGLyme]

That would be fun Kent... I'll come your way, I need the practice.  My plan is to fly/practice/land for a few more weeks on my own so I can get the Dynon down.  Then I'll head to NY... take care, I'll be in touch.  Andrew

[UCFKnight1039]

AGLyme-

was just reading your post from a while back regarding your thoughts on your new CT.   I recently purchased a CTLS and went through transition with John Hurst in Lake Placid FL.  I have to say, I couldn’t agree with you more.  After about 10 hours and a ton of ugly landings,  I think I have finally had that AH-HA moment and it happened the first time flying the plane alone.  

John, was amazingly patient with me and did an excellent job.  However, it took me being alone and focusing on approach airspeed  to get a pretty Lansing.  Just so happens, it was at about 10 hours .

Coming from multi year lay-off and prior Cessnas and pipers, my assessments (while by no means qualified) are very similar to yours. 

I have enjoyed this post.  And love my CTLS.

Gary