intake manifold install torque

[tespn]

I am re-installing the manifolds after doing my rubber change on my CTLS.  I can't seem to find any detail on the manifold install.  Can anyone point me to the right Rotax manual, section and page?  Should I torque to 10 Nm based on fastener size (6mm) if there is no detailed tightening sequence and torque value?   Thanks for the help.

Side note: I bought 1" Gates hose from FD and is was brutal trying to use the existing spring clamps as the hose wall thickness was nearly double the original hose.  When I finally called FD they told me they hadn't seen CTLS with spring clamps on the 25mm hoses and would  recommend using the screw clamps.  By that time I had it all assembled but one fitting.  Do I have some weird one-off or are there others out there that have the large spring clamps?   Also, I have the oil thermostat that is attached to the radiator that doesn't seem very common that costs about $1200 to replace at about 400 hours.  

[Roger Lee]

It is 90 in/lbs. If it doesn't have a specific torque on the Heavy Maint. manual then you go buy bolt size. These are 6mm and they get 90 in/lbs just like the gearbox 6mm bolts do.

Something isn't right. I've never seen a 1" (25mm) hose have a spring clamp. They all have a Worth Zebra raised rib style worm drive clamp.

Why replace the thermostat. Just change the hose. If it works it works. I know several CT folks that have 2000 - 2500 hours on their thermostats. 

Just my personal choice:

I don't care for them and some owners have ask me to remove them. They only go up to 180F and that's not high enough and using a piece of 2" aluminum tape is cheaper, easier and less costly and it isn't in the way of other maint.

[Tom Baker]

It was great when torque values were in the IPC.

There were some CTLS maybe around 2011-2012 that I remember seeing spring clamps on the larger coolant hoses.

[Roger Lee]

The torque values didn't change. You could still use the older IPC and if there ever was a change just mark it in the IPC.

[tespn]

Thanks for the replies. 

Tom - you are correct my plane has a Nov 2011 build date.  BTW Those clamps are nearly impossible to get over the thicker Gates hoses; I'm hoping I don't have leaks and need to replace them all.   I will replace them all at the next hose change.  I would recommend removing them from any units you service.  The irony is: I ask FD about changing the spring clamps when I ordered the hoses and Arian said they are the best solution ... when I called, after struggling through installing them, he told me he thought I was talking about the 17mm hose clamps and that he had never seen them on the 25mm hoses.   

Roger - I replaced the oil thermostat when it failed years ago with under 400 hours on engine.  

My two cents:  Rotax could learn from the Japanese about details to include in service manuals.

[Tom Baker]

For sealing with temperature changes the spring clamps work the best. That was the reason they switched to the spring clamps. With worm gear clamps you are always tightening the clamps as the temp changes. My suggestion would be to get the right spring clamp for the new hose. It would be cheaper than getting the right hose for the spring clamps you already have.

[Tom Baker]

10 hours ago, Roger Lee said:

The torque values didn't change. You could still use the older IPC and if there ever was a change just mark it in the IPC.

I still have an old copy saved on my computer.

[Roger Lee]

On 12/20/2018 at 6:47 AM, tespn said:

Thanks for the replies. 

Tom - you are correct my plane has a Nov 2011 build date.  BTW Those clamps are nearly impossible to get over the thicker Gates hoses; I'm hoping I don't have leaks and need to replace them all.   I will replace them all at the next hose change.  I would recommend removing them from any units you service.  The irony is: I ask FD about changing the spring clamps when I ordered the hoses and Arian said they are the best solution ... when I called, after struggling through installing them, he told me he thought I was talking about the 17mm hose clamps and that he had never seen them on the 25mm hoses.   

Roger - I replaced the oil thermostat when it failed years ago with under 400 hours on engine.  

My two cents:  Rotax could learn from the Japanese about details to include in service manuals.

I have now seen some 1" (25mm) spring clamps on a CT. They are on the 2015 CTLSi (912iS).  Not sure why I didn't notice these before since I saw this plane once before. It's a 2015. I have made some special pliers that open these clamps 100%. They are easy to make. Take a standard set of pliers and take a Dremel tool with a cut off blade. Place notches (about 4-5) on each set of flat areas of the jaws. This makes sure the clamp prongs fit in and don't slip and you can then fully squeeze the clamp. At first I tried just the pliers and twice it slipped and shot the clamp all the way across a 60' hangar.

Yes I have the regular cabled spring clamp tool, but many times the pliers work better and faster depending on where and how the clamp is oriented. 

[tespn]

Roger -  I agree, modifying an inexpensive set of channel locks with a Dremel tool works great!  I did that after chasing a few clamps across the hanger.  That tool worked great for removing all the clamps.  Unfortunately, I still needed to buy the cable style pliers and use them with the larger clamps because it was so difficult to install the clamps over the thicker hoses that I needed two hands available.  Additionally, my cable hose clamp pliers have locking detents that did not line up with the full open position of the clamps so I used a large zip tie to hold the handles in the position that held the clamp full open which added an extra step to grasp the clamp and then release it.  The process was painfully slow.  Good new is I haven't had any leaks since the hose change so evidently the spring clamps still work near their full open position.  Time will tell...

BTW -  For those assembling a list of hoses for the rubber replacement:  I recommend Gates 7/16" hose for the compensation tube hoses.  The 1/2 oil hose is too big to be used without adding two additional clamps.  

[Tom Baker]

37 minutes ago, tespn said:

BTW -  For those assembling a list of hoses for the rubber replacement:  I recommend Gated 7/16" hose for the compensation tube hoses.  The 1/2 oil hose is too big to be used without adding two additional clamps.  

I know it is a bit pricey, but I use the Rotax hose for the Balance Tube. I buy a meter at a time, but you can buy the 80 mm pieces too.

[tespn]

Tom -

What Rotax hose? 

I was looking for a solution and was told to use the 1/2 oil hose that FD USA recommended.  When I fit it up, it was sloppy loose.

Thanks.

[Tom Baker]

956-141 for the individual short pieces, and 956-142 by the meter.

[WmInce]

5 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

956-141 for the individual short pieces, and 956-142 by the meter.

Tom, are those Rotax part numbers?

[Tom Baker]

16 minutes ago, WmInce said:

Tom, are those Rotax part numbers?

Yes.

https://www.leadingedgeairfoils.com/tube-81-mm.html

https://www.leadingedgeairfoils.com/low-pressure-hose-oln-e-sold-per-meter.html

[Roger Lee]

. Rotax has this and it's called 66mm hose for the crossover tube. It comes pre-cut and needs no clamps. It can be hard to push on so I use a bit of fuel compatible lube. ROTAX part # 956-143        called:  66 MM  Tube Aircraft Spruce #15-03499   If both sides are equal in length then it is the 66 mm hose. The 81 mm hose that Tom shows is the new style on the right side. The left side is still 66 mm or if you have a slightly older engine that isn't just 1-2 years old.

[WmInce]

Thanks guys!