tespn Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 I am re-installing the manifolds after doing my rubber change on my CTLS. I can't seem to find any detail on the manifold install. Can anyone point me to the right Rotax manual, section and page? Should I torque to 10 Nm based on fastener size (6mm) if there is no detailed tightening sequence and torque value? Thanks for the help. Side note: I bought 1" Gates hose from FD and is was brutal trying to use the existing spring clamps as the hose wall thickness was nearly double the original hose. When I finally called FD they told me they hadn't seen CTLS with spring clamps on the 25mm hoses and would recommend using the screw clamps. By that time I had it all assembled but one fitting. Do I have some weird one-off or are there others out there that have the large spring clamps? Also, I have the oil thermostat that is attached to the radiator that doesn't seem very common that costs about $1200 to replace at about 400 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 It is 90 in/lbs. If it doesn't have a specific torque on the Heavy Maint. manual then you go buy bolt size. These are 6mm and they get 90 in/lbs just like the gearbox 6mm bolts do. Something isn't right. I've never seen a 1" (25mm) hose have a spring clamp. They all have a Worth Zebra raised rib style worm drive clamp. Why replace the thermostat. Just change the hose. If it works it works. I know several CT folks that have 2000 - 2500 hours on their thermostats. Just my personal choice: I don't care for them and some owners have ask me to remove them. They only go up to 180F and that's not high enough and using a piece of 2" aluminum tape is cheaper, easier and less costly and it isn't in the way of other maint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 It was great when torque values were in the IPC. There were some CTLS maybe around 2011-2012 that I remember seeing spring clamps on the larger coolant hoses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 The torque values didn't change. You could still use the older IPC and if there ever was a change just mark it in the IPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tespn Posted December 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 Thanks for the replies. Tom - you are correct my plane has a Nov 2011 build date. BTW Those clamps are nearly impossible to get over the thicker Gates hoses; I'm hoping I don't have leaks and need to replace them all. I will replace them all at the next hose change. I would recommend removing them from any units you service. The irony is: I ask FD about changing the spring clamps when I ordered the hoses and Arian said they are the best solution ... when I called, after struggling through installing them, he told me he thought I was talking about the 17mm hose clamps and that he had never seen them on the 25mm hoses. Roger - I replaced the oil thermostat when it failed years ago with under 400 hours on engine. My two cents: Rotax could learn from the Japanese about details to include in service manuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 For sealing with temperature changes the spring clamps work the best. That was the reason they switched to the spring clamps. With worm gear clamps you are always tightening the clamps as the temp changes. My suggestion would be to get the right spring clamp for the new hose. It would be cheaper than getting the right hose for the spring clamps you already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 10 hours ago, Roger Lee said: The torque values didn't change. You could still use the older IPC and if there ever was a change just mark it in the IPC. I still have an old copy saved on my computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 On 12/20/2018 at 6:47 AM, tespn said: Thanks for the replies. Tom - you are correct my plane has a Nov 2011 build date. BTW Those clamps are nearly impossible to get over the thicker Gates hoses; I'm hoping I don't have leaks and need to replace them all. I will replace them all at the next hose change. I would recommend removing them from any units you service. The irony is: I ask FD about changing the spring clamps when I ordered the hoses and Arian said they are the best solution ... when I called, after struggling through installing them, he told me he thought I was talking about the 17mm hose clamps and that he had never seen them on the 25mm hoses. Roger - I replaced the oil thermostat when it failed years ago with under 400 hours on engine. My two cents: Rotax could learn from the Japanese about details to include in service manuals. I have now seen some 1" (25mm) spring clamps on a CT. They are on the 2015 CTLSi (912iS). Not sure why I didn't notice these before since I saw this plane once before. It's a 2015. I have made some special pliers that open these clamps 100%. They are easy to make. Take a standard set of pliers and take a Dremel tool with a cut off blade. Place notches (about 4-5) on each set of flat areas of the jaws. This makes sure the clamp prongs fit in and don't slip and you can then fully squeeze the clamp. At first I tried just the pliers and twice it slipped and shot the clamp all the way across a 60' hangar. Yes I have the regular cabled spring clamp tool, but many times the pliers work better and faster depending on where and how the clamp is oriented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tespn Posted December 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 Roger - I agree, modifying an inexpensive set of channel locks with a Dremel tool works great! I did that after chasing a few clamps across the hanger. That tool worked great for removing all the clamps. Unfortunately, I still needed to buy the cable style pliers and use them with the larger clamps because it was so difficult to install the clamps over the thicker hoses that I needed two hands available. Additionally, my cable hose clamp pliers have locking detents that did not line up with the full open position of the clamps so I used a large zip tie to hold the handles in the position that held the clamp full open which added an extra step to grasp the clamp and then release it. The process was painfully slow. Good new is I haven't had any leaks since the hose change so evidently the spring clamps still work near their full open position. Time will tell... BTW - For those assembling a list of hoses for the rubber replacement: I recommend Gates 7/16" hose for the compensation tube hoses. The 1/2 oil hose is too big to be used without adding two additional clamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 37 minutes ago, tespn said: BTW - For those assembling a list of hoses for the rubber replacement: I recommend Gated 7/16" hose for the compensation tube hoses. The 1/2 oil hose is too big to be used without adding two additional clamps. I know it is a bit pricey, but I use the Rotax hose for the Balance Tube. I buy a meter at a time, but you can buy the 80 mm pieces too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tespn Posted December 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 Tom - What Rotax hose? I was looking for a solution and was told to use the 1/2 oil hose that FD USA recommended. When I fit it up, it was sloppy loose. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 956-141 for the individual short pieces, and 956-142 by the meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Tom Baker said: 956-141 for the individual short pieces, and 956-142 by the meter. Tom, are those Rotax part numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, WmInce said: Tom, are those Rotax part numbers? Yes. https://www.leadingedgeairfoils.com/tube-81-mm.html https://www.leadingedgeairfoils.com/low-pressure-hose-oln-e-sold-per-meter.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 . Rotax has this and it's called 66mm hose for the crossover tube. It comes pre-cut and needs no clamps. It can be hard to push on so I use a bit of fuel compatible lube. ROTAX part # 956-143 called: 66 MM Tube Aircraft Spruce #15-03499 If both sides are equal in length then it is the 66 mm hose. The 81 mm hose that Tom shows is the new style on the right side. The left side is still 66 mm or if you have a slightly older engine that isn't just 1-2 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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