Buckaroo Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 I guess it’s an ignition module. Anyway I went to start her this morning and she wouldn’t fire up. So again I got a bag of ice which is easy to find around here. First tho I did the Roger recommendation of wiggling the module wires. No help so I iced her down for 5 minutes and bam she fires. I go out to the run up area and doing the mag check when I select number two she immediately dies. WTF!! I waited a bit and restarted and tried the number two ignition again and she was fine. I then taxied her to the hanger and could hear and feel a rumbling sensation. This should be an easy one for the experts I hope! Also how much $$ am I looking at and the best source for those parts? Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 $1K per model and you need to buy 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted March 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 What do you think of the rebuilds? Is this a easy plug and play change out? Carmo!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Fairly easy change out. You will need to add a wire that goes to the starter solenoid from each module for the soft start function. Other than that it is just swapping parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitten192 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Did you check all your spark plug connections. I had a similar problem and turns out I had a bad spark plug connector on a lower plug that kept falling off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted March 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Tom thanks that’s good news. If I send them to Carmo for a rebuild will it have the soft start feature? Bitten yes I checked those. Mine has a direct correlation to icing and then starting. I just wonder how my total 2nd mag failure now fits into the equation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Buck, I don't know anyone who has had some repaired, and not certain of the legality for a SLSA. Also I don't think the repaired modules will have the soft start feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted March 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Good point Tom thanks! System wise does my problems make sense? Starting problems corrected by icing turning into mag check failure at run up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted March 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 Hello, any other ideas? I think my glider tape question got more responses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 You only have two choices. Send the modules back and get them overhauled in Europe (I have never done that) or buy two new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitten192 Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 ONLY 100 $20 BILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted March 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 Gotcha, but what is going on with the ice bag trick vs the dead mag check situation? One’s an inconvenience and the other is a potential engine failure while flying. I’m not understanding the ignition module difference between a non start situation vs a bad mag check! Why did one affect the other today? I understand I need to pony up $2000 asap but a little knowledge of what those modules do is appreciated. Are the modules if defective in stages ie no starts unless heated or iced or are the modules involved in possible engine failures while in flight? I would assume they are redundant! Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 22 minutes ago, Roger Lee said: You only have two choices. Send the modules back and get them overhauled in Europe (I have never done that) or buy two new ones. Roger ... question for you ... what is a typical lifespan of these modules or if there is one to begin with or is it a crapshoot and some just fail while others keep going ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 It was usually the 2006 - 2007 modules that seemed to have an issue. Yes there have been some others, but the huge majority go well past TBO. many from the early 1990's are still using theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 Does anyone know what engine systems these modules control? I understand there’s the starting part of them but my starting feature just failed but at run up my mag check portion also failed at almost the same time. Is this unusual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted April 1, 2019 Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 36 minutes ago, Buckaroo said: . . . . . but at run up my mag check portion also failed at almost the same time. How so? Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 8 hours ago, WmInce said: How so? Please explain. I guess it’s an ignition module. Anyway I went to start her this morning and she wouldn’t fire up. So again I got a bag of ice which is easy to find around here. First tho I did the Roger recommendation of wiggling the module wires. No help so I iced her down for 5 minutes and bam she fires. I go out to the run up area and doing the mag check when I select number two she immediately dies. WTF!! I waited a bit and restarted and tried the number two ignition again and she was fine. I then taxied her to the hanger and could hear and feel a rumbling sensation. This should be an easy one for the experts I hope! Also how much $$ am I looking at and the best source for those parts? Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 1, 2019 Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 It sounds like you are using ice bags almost every flight,. and getting intermittent ignition failures. It's time, replace the modules. The $2k sucks, but it's an easy swap, I did it last Summer. Don't play around with the possibility of an in-flight ignition failure. As you noted, a starting issue is inconvenient, a bad mag check is serious. You can certainly do the European module reconditioning. But I don't know anybody who's done it, and I don't know if the company offers a warranty or tech support on the repaired modules. It's possible you could spend $1k on the repairs, and then six months later have to spend the $2k on new modules anyway, so then you'll have paid 50% more for already expensive factory modules. Or the repaired modules could last forever. I just don't know. Do you feel lucky? I'd say the Rotax soft-start modules for $2k are the known quantity, conservative choice. The good news is, as far as I know the new modules have none of the failures that the old modules do. The bad news is there is NO warranty on them from Rotax, so if they *do* fail and Rotax chooses not to help you out you are screwed. I'm certainly not knocking the Euro repair option; but at the time I needed modules I didn't have enough info to be comfortable with that option. I got my modules in a couple of days and was back up and flying within the week; sending the modules to the Netherlands I'd expect the airplane for be down 4-8 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said: It sounds like you are using ice bags almost every flight,. and getting intermittent ignition failures. It's time, replace the modules. The $2k sucks, but it's an easy swap, I did it last Summer. Don't play around with the possibility of an in-flight ignition failure. As you noted, a starting issue is inconvenient, a bad mag check is serious. You can certainly do the European module reconditioning. But I don't know anybody who's done it, and I don't know if the company offers a warranty or tech support on the repaired modules. It's possible you could spend $1k on the repairs, and then six months later have to spend the $2k on new modules anyway, so then you'll have paid 50% more for already expensive factory modules. Or the repaired modules could last forever. I just don't know. Do you feel lucky? I'd say the Rotax soft-start modules for $2k are the known quantity, conservative choice. The good news is, as far as I know the new modules have none of the failures that the old modules do. The bad news is there is NO warranty on them from Rotax, so if they *do* fail and Rotax chooses not to help you out you are screwed. I'm certainly not knocking the Euro repair option; but at the time I needed modules I didn't have enough info to be comfortable with that option. I got my modules in a couple of days and was back up and flying within the week; sending the modules to the Netherlands I'd expect the airplane for be down 4-8 weeks. Here’s Robert from Carmo’s email response back to me this morning. Hello Dave, We normally repair / overhaul those units both because they lived the same life... Please put them in a box to us (not in an envelope) so they are more protected against damages. Also please keep the package value under $35,- otherwise we have to pay import tax when we receive your package. We have fixed prices for the repair/overhaul service, see THIS LINK. Because you live outside the EU, you do not have to pay the VAT. See THIS LINK for our repair form which you can put in the box with the units. Best regards, Robert Draaijer Team-Carmo -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Kevin van Hout <tickets@carmo.nl> Verzonden: 01 April 2019 10:35 Aan: Robert - Carmo <robert@carmo.nl> Onderwerp: FW: Website Inquiry from Carmo Electronics Op 30-03-19 20:15 heeft Dave Beggins SR <Davidbeggins33@gmail.com> geschreven: From: Dave Beggins SR Email: Davidbeggins33@gmail.com ------------------------------------------------------ Hello I have a 2007 Flight Design CTSW powered by a Rotax nine 112 ULS . The ignition modules are giving me problems I would like to send them in and have them tested and then rebuilt if necessary. Can you advise me as to how I will do this and what is the cost for each one? Is it possible that I would only have one bad one ? Also I am in Montana in the United States what would be the approximate turnaround time ? Thanks ------------------------------------------------------ Office Use Only: From: Dave Beggins SR Email: Davidbeggins33@gmail.com Login Name: Not logged in Login Email: Not logged in IP Address: 174.208.18.50 - 174.208.18.50 Host Address: OFFICE_IP_TO_HOST_ADDRESS Date and Time: Sat Mar 30 2019 20:15:08 CET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 Then I asked him about the soft start feature on the new ones and here’s his reply. Hello David, When the male 6 pole connector from the Ducati CDI unit has 6 terminals, than you have the soft start function. When the male 6 pole connector has 5 terminals than you don’t have the soft-start function. But… When we repair/overhaul the units we also adjust them that they give a good spark at lower rpm (start rpm) it’s not a soft start function but it has about the same outcome. Best regards, Robert Carmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted April 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 Just now, Buckaroo said: Then I asked him about the soft start feature on the new ones and here’s his reply. Hello David, When the male 6 pole connector from the Ducati CDI unit has 6 terminals, than you have the soft start function. When the male 6 pole connector has 5 terminals than you don’t have the soft-start function. But… When we repair/overhaul the units we also adjust them that they give a good spark at lower rpm (start rpm) it’s not a soft start function but it has about the same outcome. Best regards, Robert Carmo One year warranty and three day turn around. Shipping will take the time. Still thinking this over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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