I nosed over my CT - I think its totaled?

[Ed Cesnalis]

I talked to the FAA, not sure it was required.  We are going to have a conversation about the incident, my decision making and ongoing education.

I am anxious to have the conversation. Good things result when I interact with the FAA.

I saw an old incident report that I was unaware of where my primary instructor had the same accident decades ago in a Cessna 172.

I do find it ironic that I'm the guy that nosed over from a sideloaded nose gear because this is the result I'm always arguing about and trying to avoid on my landing rollouts.

I was taxiing to 27 with a gusty tailwind.  The gusts were crosswind from the south but a rouge quartering tailwind gust (from the north east?) challenged my directional control and accelerated me when I needed to be slowing.  I regained directional control with a blast of power but never got my nosewheel up.  Ultimately the nosegear failed under side load and I nosed over.

I talked to others about gusts from the north when winds are southerly here and it happens but only aloft not on the ground so my rouge gust isn't so easily explained.  Perhaps it was a southerly gust but it pushed my prop and not my tail.  

All in all this is very humbling.

[Runtoeat]

Bill.  it would e nice to meet you.  Florida and the Southeast U.S. certainly has had severe weather the last few years.  I'm hoping that you haven't suffered injury or serious damage to your personal property or Ct.

Ed. my short experience flying has taught me that surprises happen at the most unexpected and inopportune times.  Personally, it is always humbling to learn about other's misfortunes.  These remind me that regardless how much I try to be careful and safe piloting my plane, there is the good possibility an unexpected mechanical or weather related event will put me into a situation I find difficult or even impossible to deal with.

[solarguy54]

ELSA or SLSA? If SLSA then Someone trained/authorized by FD is needed or A&P sign off on repair. I flew Frank Borrman over from Germany for less damage than you report. Total repair was about $60k. I suspect your insurance company will total. Engine is probably ok.

[Ed Cesnalis]

15 minutes ago, solarguy54 said:

ELSA or SLSA? If SLSA then Someone trained/authorized by FD is needed or A&P sign off on repair. I flew Frank Borrman over from Germany for less damage than you report. Total repair was about $60k. I suspect your insurance company will total. Engine is probably ok.

Lone Mountain Aviation in Las Vegas and Airtime in Tulsa both do major repairs on CTs.  Policy says it totals at 70% and you are correct on the end result.

[Runtoeat]

Ed, does this mean that insurance will repair if estimated cost to do so is less or equal to 70% of what the hull is insured for and will "total" if repair will be over 70% of what hull is insured for?

.  

[Ed Cesnalis]

33 minutes ago, Runtoeat said:

Ed, does this mean that insurance will repair if estimated cost to do so is less or equal to 70% of what the hull is insured for and will "total" if repair will be over 70% of what hull is insured for?

.  

Its a big subject Dick and one it pays to be up on.  I wasn't up to speed and had my bird over-insured and ran the risk of a repair as a result. Now that we are past that risk with all bids indicating a total loss I stand to make a windfall.  My bird was a very early 06 and I ended up with an orphaned panel / AP as well as the old series motor.  On top of that my bird was beat up and needed a few other expensive upgrades.  Somehow one of my life's worst days ended up being one of the best.

Policy's are contracts and the wording in yours matters.  Mine said 70% so with $80k of coverage a total loss is when low bid on repair >= $56,000.

The definition you read when googleing is 'when the repair plus the salvage bids exceed the policy limit its a total loss.'  

Because the limit is agreed upon when you purchase the policy you are then dependent on luck. Not only will too much coverage force an unwanted repair too little coverage will force an unwanted total loss.

It wasn't typical to include the 70% and carriers could opt to repair at bad economic periods even above 70% if salvage bids are low.

 

 

 

 

[Buckaroo]

16 minutes ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

Its a big subject Dick and one it pays to be up on.  I wasn't up to speed and had my bird over-insured and ran the risk of a repair as a result. Now that we are past that risk with all bids indicating a total loss I stand to make a windfall.  My bird was a very early 06 and I ended up with an orphaned panel / AP as well as the old series motor.  On top of that my bird was beat up and needed a few other expensive upgrades.  Somehow one of my life's worst days ended up being one of the best.

Policy's are contracts and the wording in yours matters.  Mine said 70% so with $80k of coverage a total loss is when low bid on repair >= $56,000.

The definition you read when googleing is 'when the repair plus the salvage bids exceed the policy limit its a total loss.'  

Because the limit is agreed upon when you purchase the policy you are then dependent on luck. Not only will too much coverage force an unwanted repair too little coverage will force an unwanted total loss.

It wasn't typical to include the 70% and carriers could opt to repair at bad economic periods even above 70% if salvage bids are low.

 

 

 

 

For me it’s like a car. Your biggest nightmare is a rebuild. Things will never be right again and the stigma alone will kick your ass forever. If I’m fortunate enough to crawl away from my rig following an accident I’ll arrange things accordingly! 

[FlyingMonkey]

11 hours ago, Buckaroo said:

For me it’s like a car. Your biggest nightmare is a rebuild. Things will never be right again and the stigma alone will kick your ass forever. If I’m fortunate enough to crawl away from my rig following an accident I’ll arrange things accordingly! 

You probably wouldn't have to "arrange" anything.  CTs are very expensive to repair because of their construction.  A few years ago an owner had to replace a windshield due to a birdstrike, with no other damage...and the bill was over $10k.

Look at Ed's mishap.  It's basically a nosewheel/engine mount replacement, top skins, and probably some tail damage.  If that was a Cessna it would be a no brainer to repair, but for the CT it's a total loss, even at a very high $80k hull value.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Both the FAA and the NTSB looked into my nose-over after I reported it to the local FSDO.  Today they that this event didn't qualify as an accident.

 

 

[Buckaroo]

Don’t tell your plane that!

[SlingPilot]

Are you repairing it or replacing it Ed?

[WmInce]

4 hours ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

Both the FAA and the NTSB looked into my nose-over after I reported it to the local FSDO.  Today they that this event didn't qualify as an accident.

Perhaps you should be the North American launch customer for the CT Super Sport.

I bet you could even get it equipped with those photo friendly bubble windows.

That would be a great fit for you, Ed.

[Ed Cesnalis]

2 hours ago, WmInce said:

Perhaps you should be the North American launch customer for the CT Super Sport.

I bet you could even get it equipped with those photo friendly bubble windows.

That would be a great fit for you, Ed.

That would be nice but I have already found the perfect plane for me.  Its a CTSW with no loan payment.  A very important feature.

[Buckaroo]

Welcome back Ed! Any details about her? 

[Ed Cesnalis]

2 hours ago, Buckaroo said:

Welcome back Ed! Any details about her? 

If you mean the new one, its a 07 CTSW. 

[Buckaroo]

Kinda like this one?

[Ed Cesnalis]

yup kinda, different graphics

[Buckaroo]

Pics? 

[FlyingMonkey]

On 4/19/2019 at 7:26 AM, Runtoeat said:

Yup, Buckaroo gives the perfect example.  Thanks for your thoughts.  I've often thought about making the trip out West.  Just such a long way especially when there's  the need to go over those "bumps" in the terrain that you take such beautiful pictures of.  My friend, Phil Wade, has gone to Page twice in his CTLS  N816W and has offered to go again with me.    

I generally try to look at long cross country flights in the CT as an opportunity to flex my "adaptability" mental muscles.  As an example on our trip to Page,  Bill Ince and I between the two of us suffered a battery failure, a broken exhaust, and severe weather.  We overcame all these obstacles and had what I would consider a successful trip. 

When you look at long flights in this light it becomes kind of like a big puzzle to be solved.  I highly recommend you take Phil up on his Page offer, and if Bill and I can actually get around the weather this year. maybe we can meet up with you partway and make it a four ship flight.

[WmInce]

Bucharoo,

I always liked the livery on your airplane. That green is refreshingly different.

[WmInce]

3 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said:

. . . . . if Bill and I can actually get around the weather this year. maybe we can meet up with you partway and make it a four ship flight.

That sounds like a swell idea.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Alan Sizemore is the seller, here are 2 of his photos:

 

 

[Roger Lee]

You're not going to know what to do with it. LOL   

You'll have better climb and cruise and more info at your finger tips. A bigger rudder, larger panel, stronger nose strut, stronger main gear and AP.  

[Ed Cesnalis]

22 minutes ago, Roger Lee said:

You're not going to know what to do with it. LOL   

You'll have better climb and cruise and more info at your finger tips. A bigger rudder, larger panel, stronger nose strut, stronger main gear and AP.  

I'm hoping I can set this prop to get back the performance I'm used to, no reason to think there is anything more to give here though.  Never seen a CT like this that was as fast as Woodstock.  The rudder is the same, both planes are the same model CTSW, same main gear.  Woodstock's AP is more full featured.

The sentiment works if not the facts of your message Roger.  I'm far ahead because my panel and AP were orphaned, my engine is older series my windshield had an issue, my composite needed repair and my prop still has a big nick and my night lighting was a problem. My cooling needed upgrading too. When you throw in the paid off loan I'm $50k ahead of where I was.  I did loose my synthetic vision.

More info at my finger tips will be very nice, especially in darkness.

 

[Buckaroo]

Does the insurance company offer a sell back to you?  My friend had water damage in a almost new camper and they wrote him a fat check and sold him the damaged camper for pennies on the dollar.