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The New F-Series Has Been Officially Announced

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This is awesome! Hopefully it will come with a 914 turbo similar to tecnam. 

 

Any mention of when they they will announce the C4 or maybe now the F4?

cant wait to hear about the 4 seater 

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I’m excited about it. Panel mounted airbags standard is a first for any airplane. And an electric option? Yes!

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Yeah , it is a bit fugly with that unnaturally long snout .. almost like some kind of bastard child of the good old  CT and a Jabiru 😃

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Exciting!  I'll take one of each for the ultimate Flight Design Flight School!....Of course I'll have to play the lottery a lot before then :)

 

 

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All Good... healthy companies spend R&D on the future.  Supports the notion that FD is here to stay which builds intrinsic value into all of our CT planes.  The turnaround phase is officially over... they will have to re-jigger their sales and marketing efforts now and get the message out again.   Nothing but positive news here.

PS:  In the back of my mind, when I bought the CT, I figured that withing 10-15 years, FD would come out with an E-package and replace the wings/fuel tanks and motor with wings/batteries and an e motor up front.  The CT should be able to do this transition effortlessly once the big e transformation takes place.  That will occur once the battery-life puzzle gets resolved. 

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They are planning the new Rotax 915i installation only on their F4 model and that model will sell for $ 350K - hardly a competitive price for a basic 4 seater with a 140 HP motor - that's pretty disappointing.

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1 hour ago, Warmi said:

They are planning the new Rotax 915i installation only on their F4 model and that model will sell for $ 350K - hardly a competitive price for a basic 4 seater with a 140 HP motor - that's pretty disappointing.

Compared to what other new certified 4 seater? What would be its competition? 

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1 hour ago, Warmi said:

They are planning the new Rotax 915i installation only on their F4 model and that model will sell for $ 350K - hardly a competitive price for a basic 4 seater with a 140 HP motor - that's pretty disappointing.

Sounds like a competitive price for what it’s offering in safety(brs, dash airbags,)

tecnam p2010 doesn’t offer BRS, Cessna 172/182 is way more expensive. 

 

 

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Similar performance and capability as a SR20,  which Starts at $460k, If the marketing holds up, Sounds like a contender for the Cirrus market at $100k less than bottom of the line Cirrus.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Warmi said:

They are planning the new Rotax 915i installation only on their F4 model and that model will sell for $ 350K - hardly a competitive price for a basic 4 seater with a 140 HP motor - that's pretty disappointing.

When it gets here I bet the performance will be better than most would expect with their 140 HP engine. That 140 HP figure is a ready to install engine. The typical Lycoming offerings at 160 HP will be close to the 140 HP figure when install in an airframe, so about the same power at sea level. Plus the Rotax will maintain its HP at altitude, where the others will drop off.

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I would compare it more to a new Cessna 172 with 180 hp motor which runs for about 300k.

Reasonable offering but not really competitive - if you give most operators ( since that’s who is buying new planes these days ) a choice - a well know design with well supported engine vs unknown to them engine and a composite plane   -  with similar specs and for similar price , what do you think your typical flight school would pick ?

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46 minutes ago, Warmi said:

I would compare it more to a new Cessna 172 with 180 hp motor which runs for about 300k.

Reasonable offering but not really competitive - if you give most operators ( since that’s who is buying new planes these days ) a choice - a well know design with well supported engine vs unknown to them engine and a composite plane   -  with similar specs and for similar price , what do you think your typical flight school would pick ?

Can you site your source on who is buying the most GA Piston AC?  Cirrus was the market lead in sales last year. 

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I wonder why they changed the tail so much?  The new vertical stab looks very square and chunky, compared to the rounded sweep of the CT tail.  Maybe it's just cheaper to produce?  More area in a similar height?  Both?

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BTW, on the electric model, I think until we have 400+ mile range and charging times under an hour, it's a market that will never take off, so to speak.

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3 hours ago, Warmi said:

I would compare it more to a new Cessna 172 with 180 hp motor which runs for about 300k.

Reasonable offering but not really competitive - if you give most operators ( since that’s who is buying new planes these days ) a choice - a well know design with well supported engine vs unknown to them engine and a composite plane   -  with similar specs and for similar price , what do you think your typical flight school would pick ?

 

I talked to a Cessna sales rep and:

 

"I have received your request for information. Attached to this email is the standard specifications document and optional equipment pricing guide for our Skyhawk line. Please note that these documents are for 2019 units which we are currently sold out of. Our next available units are Q1 of 2020 and pricing will start at $411,000 for a base model with the optional equipment pricing increasing roughly 5% from 2019 units.

 

If you have any questions or wish to discuss this further, please feel free to reach out."

 

Laurie Sperlak
Regional Sales Director

lsperlak@txtav.com

+1.312.805.4155 CELL

Textron Aviation | txtav.com

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Skunkworks85 said:

Can you site your source on who is buying the most GA Piston AC?  Cirrus was the market lead in sales last year. 

Folks who purchase Cirrus planes will not go for F4 - it is not the same market -  Rotax 915i doesn't even come close to performance you get with Cirrus - i.e 180-200 knots cruise, and if you artificially get there by lowering total gross lbs - you  don't end up with the same experience , you end up with a squirrely plane that can go almost as fast but is nowhere near as comfortable like a Cirrus for cross country traveling.

The next largest market segment is flight schools purchasing mostly C172s and C182s so I assumed that's where you look for competition  - don't get me wrong , personally I would pick F4 over C172/182 any day but I am not going to be purchasing a plane for 300+K so it dosn't matter.
It just doesn't make sense to me that they double the price (150 K  > 300 K ) for a slightly heavier and longer plane with Rotax 915i  ( I guess it is the certification process ) 

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1 hour ago, Warmi said:

Folks who purchase Cirrus planes will not go for F4 - it is not the same market -  Rotax 915i doesn't even come close to performance you get with Cirrus - i.e 180-200 knots cruise, and if you artificially get there by lowering total gross lbs - you  don't end up with the same experience , you end up with a squirrely plane that can go almost as fast but is nowhere near as comfortable like a Cirrus for cross country traveling.

The next largest market segment is flight schools purchasing mostly C172s and C182s so I assumed that's where you look for competition  - don't get me wrong , personally I would pick F4 over C172/182 any day but I am not going to be purchasing a plane for 300+K so it dosn't matter.
It just doesn't make sense to me that they double the price (150 K  > 300 K ) for a slightly heavier and longer plane with Rotax 915i  ( I guess it is the certification process ) 

SR20 is  $460k with Cruise speed of 155knts (same speed quoted for the F4)

SR20 Gross Weight: 2984lbs, 2000lbs empty,     F4 Gross Weight : 2420lbs, unknown empty.

Without a doubt, the F4 is a direct competitor to the sr20. at over $100k less.

 

You are thinking of the SR22 

SR22 is $780k with a cruise speed of 183knts

Not a competitor.

 

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Yeah it looks like it could be a competitor for SR20 but why 300k + ? I mean it is just a slightly longer, more beefy  CTLS + Rotax 915is ? 

Hell,  I wouldn’t mind a 2 seater CTLS + a bit higher gross + 915is for .. say, 200 k ... 😀

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41 minutes ago, Warmi said:

Yeah it looks like it could be a competitor for SR20 but why 300k + ? I mean it is just a slightly longer, more beefy  CTLS + Rotax 915is ? 

Hell,  I wouldn’t mind a 2 seater CTLS + a bit higher gross + 915is for .. say, 200 k ... 😀

Its a certified, IFR platform

 

Have you looked at the price of an 915iS?  Now add the 915iSc, c meaning certified. 

Certifying a brand new airframe requires ungodly amounts of money. That is the exact reason the 172 has been the same airframe for 50 years.

also the same reason that the Continentals and lycomings have not changed in 50 years. It is cost prohibitive to re certify and new design.

 

Ever notice the required placard saying, " Passenger Warning!!    this aircraft does not comply......" removal of that placard is what makes it $140k more than a CTLS

 

https://generalaviationnews.com/2012/09/09/the-cost-of-certification/

 

$150k to certify to ASTM standards,  $1 million to certify to FAA standards.

 

 

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