Warmi Posted April 12, 2019 Report Share Posted April 12, 2019 Well, good luck to FD then - they had enough trouble staying afloat without getting into this expensive certification business but hey ... it is their investors money after all ...:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted April 12, 2019 Report Share Posted April 12, 2019 Again, purely from a business and plane value perspective, it is a very good move for them, and for all CT owners as the intro of the "F" firms up their commitment to the fleet. Adding more safety features (anti spin, air bags, improved handling and IFR capability) is a smart vision for the Company. I may trade up to the 4 seater with the 915 in a few years, perhaps not as a true 4 passenger plane, but I can fly IFR, and put a couple of folding bikes in the back. This plane is a solid model end point to my training and future mission needs. The "modular" aspect of their plan is powerful. Meaning, they have a singular airframe (built on an assembly line) and when the airframe comes into the finishing area the Customer chooses 4 seats or 2, 912i or 915i, IFR package or VFR and so on... which lowers manufacturing costs dramatically. I wouldn't be surprised if they have plans to tap their China links for Carbon Fiber layup work which is VERY expensive (either robotic or hand layup). Now if they can only work on the "looks" of the nose... it is a face only a mother could love... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 12, 2019 Report Share Posted April 12, 2019 7 hours ago, Warmi said: Well, good luck to FD then - they had enough trouble staying afloat without getting into this expensive certification business but hey ... it is their investors money after all ...:-) They were already in the type certification business before the financial problems. It was likely a factor in the problems, but not the only factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben2k9 Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 Very cool. I like it’s appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Ben2k9 said: Very cool. I like it’s appearance. Even the duckbill intake under the prop? That looks like an afterthought, and makes for a face only a mother could love... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 Low wings are sexy looking and designing a hi wing that looks good is tough to do. Flight Design did very well up until now. The cartoonist lines of the molded composite CT worked well but are not surviving this evolution well at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGLyme Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 I must have the record of earning the most downvotes on this lovely forum...; )... what a coward that guy is. To the moderators, if there is a moderator, get rid of that feature please. No wonder there are so few participants here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Ed Cesnalis said: Low wings are sexy looking and designing a hi wing that looks good is tough to do. Flight Design did very well up until now. The cartoonist lines of the molded composite CT worked well but are not surviving this evolution well at all. I concur with you, Ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaw4 Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 will the F2 still be LSA in the US? seems like a bigger airplane. I wonder what the price per unit would be if 20 of us were to go buy F2s or F4s in one batch order... lack of volume is what keeps prices so high. /iaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 hour ago, iaw4 said: will the F2 still be LSA in the US? seems like a bigger airplane. I wonder what the price per unit would be if 20 of us were to go buy F2s or F4s in one batch order... lack of volume is what keeps prices so high. /iaw If you can find 20 people on this forum that can afford to buy brand new F2/F4s, then I should probably leave because this company is too rich for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaw4 Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 what if it were half price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 It won’t be - I think just 20 units is not enough for any sort of significant discount like that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaw4 Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 I know. I was just dreaming. the Vans RV-12iS is about $100,000 and $150,000 assembled/built. I wonder at what wholesale price dealers are receiving CTLSi's. of course, they take quite a bit of risk and have to invest into showrooms, etc. I am going to guess that a large aspect of the reasonable prices of cessna and pipers 50 years ago was that they could be mass-produced on assembly lines. it had to be two for some competition. it couldn't have been 100 to fragment the market into so many small vendors that none had great economies of scale. I hope to be able to buy a used F2 in about 10 years. The more new ones get sold, the better it is. /iaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okent Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 From my experience most businesses shoot for a 20% margin. I bought my CTLS tp train and build hours and then transition to a 140 knot 4 seater probably in 3-4 years or so. I hope the F4 is out and doing well by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207WF Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 hope the new guppy mouth helps it run cooler. WF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaw4 Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 On 4/11/2019 at 12:37 PM, Skunkworks85 said: Ever notice the required placard saying, " Passenger Warning!! this aircraft does not comply......" removal of that placard is what makes it $140k more than a CTLS where can I buy a version *with* the placard for $100k less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 9, 2019 Report Share Posted June 9, 2019 15 hours ago, iaw4 said: where can I buy a version *with* the placard for $100k less? Wait five years and buy a used one. That's the best way to buy any depreciating asset...let somebody else pay the "it's new" premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted June 9, 2019 Report Share Posted June 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said: Wait five years and buy a used one. That's the best way to buy any depreciating asset...let somebody else pay the "it's new" premium. The 06 / 07 models that are now dipping under $60k started at under $100k. When I consider the new prices I think the values have held pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 9, 2019 Report Share Posted June 9, 2019 28 minutes ago, Ed Cesnalis said: The 06 / 07 models that are now dipping under $60k started at under $100k. When I consider the new prices I think the values have held pretty well. They do hold well, but I bought my 2007 with 113 hours on it in 2013 for $68.5, which I'm sure was 30% or more less than new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opticsguy Posted June 30, 2019 Report Share Posted June 30, 2019 The F2 is looking like a great option, if certified. The LSA thing has been a PITA from day one. A 155 kt IFR bird with chute for $200K seems like a deal. It's the same wing essentially as the CTSW, so it should fly the same. I'm wondering if the F2 could land on the ultralight strip at Oshkosh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 hours ago, opticsguy said: The LSA thing has been a PITA from day one. How so? Please explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opticsguy Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Finding light sport mechanics to do annuals and repairs. Hell, finding people that will work on Rotax engines is hard enough. Cessna 172 owners can change their oil without taking a 2 day class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben2k9 Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 3 hours ago, opticsguy said: Finding light sport mechanics to do annuals and repairs. Hell, finding people that will work on Rotax engines is hard enough. Cessna 172 owners can change their oil without taking a 2 day class. You don’t need a 2 day course to learn how to change the oil. Just see it done once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODowneyEng Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 From my observations, most Flying Schools tie their planes down outside in all weathers. Many composite owners would not like this practice with their lease backs. So goes the desire for metal planes. Forget about finding a hanger within 50miles of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opticsguy Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 I sat in the F2 at Airventure (the electric version). Much more leg room and a huge space behind the two seats. You lose the ability to put stuff in the tail. With a constant speed prop it should move pretty fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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